Forum - View topicAttraction To Males (for the females)
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 960 |
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This is something that has been on my mind lately, and I'm posting here in the manga forum because it was a manga that really ramped up my curiousity. Now it's come up several times why anime girls are drawn a certain way (big breasts, long legs and such), but I've been thinking about the flip side.
So a friend of mine is trying to get me to test out some new series that I normally wouldn't try on my own (although I'm getting into xxxHOLiC), and one of them was a manga titled Alichino. I've only read the first volume, and it's definitley a huge shoujo fantasy. I'm not too familiar with the genre, but from what I've heard this seems to be a pretty good representation. One of my issues was, every few pages there was a brand new bishie character for girls to gush over (in other words fan pandering). What I noticed was all of the guys are extremely feminine. Now here's my question, where is the attraction? It's hard for me to understand because I would think that heterosexual individuals would be attracted to members of the opposite sex that look like they belong to that sex. Is it a sense of frailty that is attractive? Does the look show a level of emotional depth? This also made me question the fascination with yaoi. I'm not exactly sure how to explain my thoughts without sounding closed minded or discriminatory. I tend to not be attracted to lesbians/yuri characters because their homosexuality makes them in a sense unobtainable, so it really takes away from huge possible attraction. That's not to say that homosexual characters can't be attractive, it's just their level of desireability when compared to someone who is heterosexual. I guess that's enough for now, since I can't seem to really hammer out my thoughts on this. But maybe if some discussion gets under way I'll be able to explain it more. If any of what I said makes sense, care to try and explain? |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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It's hard to really explain why people are attracted to anyone, but I saw a documentary a few years ago in art class which had some interesting findings in it.
In the documentary, they had a study with various groups of people, both men and women, of mixed nationalities. What they wanted to do was find out what the groups found attractive. Interestingly enough, despite the diversity of nationality, the answers were fairly standard across the board. The study started off with the men. They were shown a CG woman's face and then the "feminity" of it was turned up and down and they had to chose which one they found most attractive. The average answer was that the ultra-feminine woman was the most attractive. Because of this, it was expected that the women would answer similarily. However, as it turns out, it was the more feminine CG man's face that the women were most attracted to. The reason they concluded for this is because the ultra-masculine male was actually rather scary looking (which I agree with). The more feminine looking man seems more the type who is going to stick around (if one can judge by appearences which of course you can't, but that's not the point of this now is it?). They concluded that the woman's biological desire for a mate who will stick around and help with kids (and maybe even the dishes) was the reason for this (to go down to crude biology). There was one notable exception to that: woman who were most fertile often were more attracted to the more masculine appearing men and biology was used here again to explain it, saying that the women were looking for the best genes for their future children. Anyway, there is one explanation perhaps for why the bishounen/pretty boy phenomenon exists. |
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DazzleNeko
 Posts: 44 |
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I'll try to answer this the best way I can. I'm not too good with words a lot of the time, so please excuse any awkwardness that may appear in the text below.
I've seen the question on why girls like bishounen to appear a lot. Many say 'why would a girl like girly men if she claims she is straight?'. I am going to give you my own personal reason why I like these types of guys. Here in the US where I live, I don't like the style for men at all. They shave their hair or cut it, try to be as big, muscley and macho as they can. That is a turn off for me. The more rugged men don't attract me. Muscles in abundance look really gross, especially when they have so much it makes their neck look bigger than their head. I like the body type and face type on most bishounen. They aren't very large when it comes to muscles, but they usually aren't ultra skinny either (except for some of the 'uke' type characters in yaoi, but I don't like the super-super girly ones). The face and hair is one of my most favorite parts of a guy. I like men to have lots of hair the is nicely kept, and I really like long-haired men. I am sure you have noticed that bishounen oftentimes have that. I also like the face to be clear and 'soft' looking, which is another characteristic. So yes, I do like 'pretty' boys. I find that most guys reject the idea of pretty boys, and I think they view that as a dent or threat to their 'masculinity'. But really, I don't think that's true. I wish more guys were willing to be pretty. 
About the whole yaoi thing...I like that too. Yes, they are unattainable, but they are also ficitonal. You get to see a romance or smut story revolving around two attractive men. It reels girls in who like those sorts of things. Also, sometimes yaoi fans tend to get frustrated with anime girls, or don't like to have to compare ourselves to them, so yaoi is a nice way to avoid that. Sorry if my answer kinda veered from the main point. I tried my best to be of help, even if it was just a little bit. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16961 |
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I agree with Marie as I have seen similar studies myself. I've also seen much more detailed studies on the human pyche as part of my course of study for my degree. Many women do prefer the more femine guy for many reasons but the overall idea is he's more reliable. The interesting thing is these women were also asked what they were looking for in terms of relationship. The interesting part is these women were the ones NOT looking for a serious relationship. Adversly, a fair number of women that WERE looking for serious relationships were more attracted to men witha rougher look to them. Many stated they seemed more manly, and more importantly, that they thought those guys, fitting the manly man/bad guy image, would be more exciting to be with. You wonder why us guys have trouble figuring you out
Another reason I think is because it's a fad. It's popular now and trendy. As anyone should know whatever is popular is what people gotta have. It doesn't even matter if it's worth it. "Everyone I know has this and reads this so I gotta do it too." People are silly that way. I'm sure that's not the main reason but I know for a fair amount it probably is to some degree. |
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digitalkikka
 Posts: 462 Location: Chicago, Illinois |
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That is exactly why I'm not into yaoi. When I first read a yaoi title I was pretty shocked that so many girls were into this. I coudn't understand why they found this attractive and I didn't. Sure it made me blush a few times but in the end I didn't feel how I thought I would 
No when you ask where is the attraction to bishounen, that's really tough to answer. Trying to figure out why a person finds someone attractive isn't something I think anyone has or ever will have the answers to. I'm not sure myself why I look at even the most generic bishounen and find him attractive. Perhaps it's narcissistic, perhaps it's the fantasy that he's not real, or perhaps as a girl I'm just attracted towards 'pretty things'. It would also be interesting to study how people are 'attracted' to characters in manga and anime. How can people develop feelings for/lust over an animated/drawn character? That's more what I'm curious about. |
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smoochy
 Posts: 367 Location: Texas |
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Pick up the first volume of Genshiken for the answer. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11417 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I found this topic intersting and decided to move it from Manga to Anime since it didn't look like it was getting a lot of looks.
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kolibri
 Posts: 712 Location: Vancouver |
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I thought guys are supposed to be imagining themselves with the lesbians and that's what makes it exciting? The theory about BL is slightly different - this is what I've heard from the fantastic Dr. Antonia Levi who's researched the subject, and my empiric evidence points to it too. Firstly many ladies into BL think that two hot guys having hot sex is hot - that's fairly self-explanatory. Secondly - and I think this is very interesting - in heterosexual porn where there is a man and a woman, the viewer doesn't get to choose the roles to identify with: if you're a guy you imagine yourself doing the chick, if you're a girl you imagine yourself in the place of the woman (I'm generalizing, but bear with me). But with a boy-on-boy situation the (often heterosexual) female reader gets to choose - you want to be the top, you want to be the one doing the hot guy (and you'd be surprised how many girls want to do this)? Well, now you can. You want to be the bottom and have this hot guy do you? Well, now you can. Want to change your mind mid-way through? Well, now you can. It also takes away the possible inequality aspect that most women see in heterosexual porn (directed to men) - with two guys you're on equal stand, no one is being oppressed. The reader also gets to be the only woman "present" - no need to put yourself in the mold of the impossible porn starlet, you don't need to be jealous of any other girl, and these guys don't want anyone else (than you). Thirdly - and this I think is the most interesting bit - BL is a safe way to explore dangerous or difficult themes. SM, incest, rape? These issues are the bread and butter of mature BL (I think most men would be very surprised on what's in these books). Many many plots are situations where imagining a woman in place of the uke character would be deeply offensive, yet as a BL story it works and it's exciting. Because the reader and take a step back - there is no woman here, it's not dangerous. Your mileage may vary, not all the points may apply in your case - but it is a very interesting theory. Now your question wasn't just about BL, it was also about the whole bishounen phenomena. As many before have stated, what makes something/someone attractive for one person is difficult to explain. I really like marie-antoinette's theory on the subject... Personally I don't have the patience for girly boys in fiction - while on the subject of Genshiken I'll just say that my tastes are much more akin to Ohno's than anyone else's, but I know that we're in the minority  I'm not saying that I don't appreciate a bishie guy - but what I really like is a big and burly guy, bigger the muscles the better. Femininity in a guy is a definite turn-off... but that's just me.
Enough rambling, thanks for reading
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omar235
 Posts: 1572 Location: Florida, Jacksonvile |
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I have also wondered this TranceLimit174, I never understood it really since I don't like girls to look more like guys (I like yuri but the girls don't really look like guys in most yuri anime). After reading through everyones posts I think I sorta understand now why women like girly men. I have to say though some bishies look really girly I mean some have even fooled me into thinking they were female until they start talking, thinking of gravitation, I saw the red haired guy in an AMV and I didn't know until I looked down at the comments that she was a he (this is before I saw the series). My friend saw the AMV and when I told him it was a guy he was like "of course it was he doesn't look anything like a chick he has no chest", I told him that him having no chest was probably the only way to distinguish him in the AMV but he could have been a flat chested girl.
 Is there any limit to just how girly a male character can look? Is Jun from Happiness pushing it? That aside is there any paticular reason a more feminine looking guy looks more dependible or is more likly to help with the kids? This might be one of those impossible to answer question but I will ask anyways. After reading this it looks like I will have to grow my hair long. 
You know it is funny really, women aren't really surprised by what is in some of the lesbian porn guys watch, but men are surprised to see what women have thought up and put into some of the yoai as if women aren't capable of such thoughts. I admit the first time I saw some I wasn't expecting some of the stuff I saw but I wasn't too surprised my self. But they are both about as equally graphic.
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selenta
Subscriber Posts: 1774 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I can't find the article (as I actually packed all my decade long collection of Scientific American and Discovers away two weeks ago), and although I've referenced it a number of times, I can't remember the specifics, so just take what I'm going to say however you want, but: About three years ago, Scientific American published a small article in their news section pointing to how the genes that determined a particular personality trait also made a consistent and measurable impact on the physical traits of whatever animal was being tested. In other words, the same proteins or enzymes that effect certain physical traits had a related personality trait directly effected by the same protein. Although it was unclear as to what extent this occurs, and how linear and predictable the results are, it certainly happens at least to a small degree in humans. So, I thought that perhaps people have been bred by society to be able to 'see' some of these personality traits on other people's faces (entirely my own conclusion). Another example though, was the more famous attempt by a Russian(?) group that attempted over a hundred or so years to breed a completely docile house dog from wild wolves. Over the hundred or so years, the most human friendly wolves were repeatedly bred together. Each generation of more human friendly wolves looked increasingly and increasingly juvenile for their age. It was so predictable, that if one knew the ages of the wolves, you could (with relatively good certainty) just breed the two youngest looking ones together without even examining their behavior in depth (although, this was actually done because this was an experiment). I believe the experiment was rather successful. (does anyone have any info about either of these? I looked for a few minutes, but since I have such a sketchy memory about them, I couldn't refine the search very far )
Last edited by selenta on Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kelly
Posts: 868 Location: New York City |
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I'm not sure, but maybe it has to do with who shojo is marketed to. Your target audience are intermediate and high school girls slowly changing their priorities from their friends to the boys they are starting to date. If they have responsible parents they've been warned about the dangers of date rape; the cold, hard reality that it's they and not their boyfriends who are going to suffer if they get pregnant, and the fact that they have to be careful in ways they didn't before not to turn even a nice guy on (for the poor guy's sake more than that he's necessarily going to suddenly turn into an animal).
Reverse harem stories revolving around a girl with a bunch of nice guy pals (one of whom of course turns out to be The One) with whom she shares laughter and tears like she would with girlfriends but who won't try to get in her pants might be a way of helping girls transition into this exciting but scary phase of life. |
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prettyprincess
Posts: 2 |
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well i believe that when bishounen look to girly, girly enough to be girls with no boobs, it is completly a turn off (it's basically likeing girls.) that's why if there are going to be bishies they must at least have some masculanity. Such as a male jawline, muscles of course, a deep voice, and a rough look in their face. Really the only thing i LIKE about bishies are their hair! So anyway, if a bishie looks too extremely girly it's not even a bishie to me, it's more of a girly man.
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Wolverine Princess
 Posts: 1100 |
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This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen on ANN in quite some time.
My own reason for why I like pretty boy characters is much less scientific than most of the explanations here. In general, I'm simply more attracted to how female anime characters look than males. I'm as straight as straight can be when it comes to real people, but for some reason that I myself can't even find the words to properly explain, long hair, giant watery bug eyes, and frilly dresses are just more appealing to me on cartoon characters. Feminine pretty boy and "trap" characters are much more likely to have these characteristics than manly hunk-of-beef badasses, right? In my opinion, the more cute and girlish a character is (whether they're supposed to be male or female), the better. As I type this in the library, there is a mentally handicapped man reading this post over my shoulder and making purring noises. Sir, if you are still reading this, please leave me alone. (Good, he's gone now... I hope I didn't hurt his feelings, but that was just disturbing. I was considering removing this part of the post after the matter resolved itself, but I found it amusing so I figured, "What the heck?" and left it in anyway.) |
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jetz
 Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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I may seem to like a lot of bishonens, but I would like to say that it's not because of their looks.. It's mostly because of their personalities.. they may look feminine, but their personalities are all - man (except a few, like Gunter from kyou kara maoh and Yukito from card captor sakura)
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frouella
 Posts: 199 Location: 大阪 |
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I wouldn't say that Gunter was totally a girlie-man. Yes, he flits around the king and loudly declares his undying love (complete with flowers and bishounen sparkles), but he can still beat down a group of soldiers singlehandedly without disturbing his perfectly-coiffed lavender hair. Though I like Gunter, so I may be biased.
As for other bishounen in general, I think I like them because 1) they're pretty to look at (I mean, come on, they're not called bi-shounen for nothing) 2) they have interesting personalities, often expressing more emotion than the other manly-man characters and 3) too much testosterone in any guy is decidedly UNattractive. To me, at least. This is such a personal taste issue, though, that I'm sure the reasons are different for everyone. With the yaoi/BL issue, I think that part of the attraction comes from the fact that one hot guy = good, so two hot guys kissing = even better! Plus, while homosexual relationships are becoming more and more commonplace, I still think there's a bit of a taboo attached to it that makes it more exciting than a heterosexual relationship. But regardless of the gender of the people in the story, the most important element to me is still the relationship and emotions themselves. If there isn't any underlying feeling, I don't really care to watch or read about anybody getting it on, really. Unless, y'know, I'm just looking for pr0n, which is another topic altogether...
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