Forum - View topicPokemon and Socialization.
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Deltakiral
 Posts: 3338 Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK) |
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This quarter I am taking a Communication class base on how media can effect people. Simple stated the title of this class is "MEDIA, POLITICS, SEX & VIOLENCE." The title of the class is a textbook example of how the media will use a bait lines to draw people into a story.
Anyways let me get to the matter at hand, last Thursday 10/5 we were discussing on how the Television is often times the greatest factor in a child's development. One topic of that is how often time children shows are made to show children how to behave according to cultural norm. Now we get to the anime part  . Anyways so the teacher says that she going to put in a typical children program and we are to pick out the different items that would either be a cultural norm or other items that are outside these norms. Much to my surprise the "children" show was Pokemon 34 "The Bridge Bike Gang" or if you want original Japanese it's episode 36 "Stormy Cycling Road".
Definition of Socialization (Which is the same as Cultural norms), meaning that mass media can help initiate people into society and help fit in. Demonstrating dominant behaviors and norms, such it's observational learning. Brief summary of episode in case you haven't seen it: Ash and friends travel to a new city where they learn that a new bridge was installed to cross the river....however only bikes can cross since the car path isn't ready. Ash learns from the nurse that across the bridge is a town that needs medicine to heal sick pokemon, but a bike is blocking the road. In the end Ash battles the bike gang defeats team rocket and saves the day. Oh yea they also have to cross the bridge at nighttime during a rain storm. Originally lots of people pointed out how Ash and his friends were seen throwing away trash, where the scene would show them throwing away drinks or food. And also how Ash and his friends decide to battle with the bikers instead of talking it out, and also how when riding bikes only the Misty was wearing a helmet.....are helmet law required in Japan? It was also pointed out of charging head first into a rain storm might not be the best idea, but other thought it mearly meant that Ash was being brave. Now to point, is Japanese anime (Children show Yu-gi-oh Pokemon, One piece) suitable for an American/Canadian child from the point of teaching cultural norms? I attempted to brings this up in my class how Pokemon was a Japanese show and was localize for US, but does it do a enough? Also one other thing this was the first time in my classes that my knowledge of anime has been helpful, other then providing me with writing topic for my creative writing. Anyone else here have their anime come in handy in class? Till next time, Delta Kiral Edit: changed topic title. Last edited by Deltakiral on Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:14 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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God Gundam
Posts: 404 |
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Your teacher is an idiot. Using a cartoon aimed at children to demonstrate the effects of media is ridiculous. So Ash and Co. are throwing away food. Big deal. What, are kids going to suddenly think, "Hey, I'm going to throw away this perfectly good hamburger?" or something? Oh, and talking it out with a biker gang? Yeah, like that'll work. The UN "talks it out" all the time, and what comes out of it? Nukes, pointless wars, and hatred towards Americans. Oh, and the whole point of Pokemon is for the little critters to battle, but of course your ignorant teacher wouldn't know that since he/she saw that it was anime and thinks it's automatically violent.
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jaybug39
 Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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I kind of think so, yes. Why? Take no prisoners, take no @#$%! It isn't perfect, but it is better than having a limp noodle for a backbone, which is politically correct.
I think that anime has morals portrayed. Whereas US kids TV has toys for sale. And depending upon show quality, there are anime that are better suited at showing behaviors that will benefit the viewer and those who associate with the viewer. Example: from Midori Days, which I just finished, Seiji does the unexpected as to have done the expected would have escalated the situation to the detriment of others. He then explains his actions, so we can all understand what looked to be stupidity on his part, only to find wisdom. This also underscores the fact that anime has lessons for people over the age of 4, unlike US TV. Go watch something really scary, turn on the local TV news! We're all gonna die! 
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Deltakiral
Posts: 3338 Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK) |
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Well I was going to attempt to have a serious discussion but I guess not....First off my teacher is not ignorant that would be someone who jumps to hasty conclusion. It's not ridiculous when the discussion is meant discuss how children programs can often times show children how to behave.
Augh.....and I wonder why I stop posting as much here. Anyways no she didn't assume all anime was violent by nature, she commented on how Ash's response to the biker gang was to battle from the get go....lets not forget Pokemon is a children program.
Pre-wiring begins early in development so when you take in an image as being the right thing you often times will do the same. Much as when we were kids "Prevent forest fire" became attached to Smoking the Bear. The reference with cleaning up food, (Not throwing away good food) is to instill good habits.
This isn't foxnews, please take your opinions on the war elsewhere.
I agree, I mean look at the 5 o clock (which is roughly the same time pokemon use to air) you can see some shocking things on there.
I understand your point (I think) however what US TV shows are you referring to? Do you mean like US animation or liveaction? |
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Azathrael
 Posts: 745 |
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So what exactly is "cultural norm". What culture are we talking about, having American kids learning from Japanese kid's shows? Didn't your professor give you a working definition of what "cultural norm" he's focusing on?
And I find it weird that Pokemon is the focus. There should be alternative sources being compared and how the media as a whole is affecting children, not just a particular show. |
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bluepita
 Posts: 465 |
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I plan on addressing the OP soon, but I wanted to think about it a bit before typing something vague. 
However, I had to reply to God Gundam. Cartoons are a perfect example of the effect of media. Most cartoons are filled with cultural norms (the point of her lesson). You ever hear the saying 'get e'm while their young?' What children watch greatly influences their perceptions of the world, especially when children are allowed to watch too much television, which is common. For example, it's a pretty common perception that smart women are unattractive and pretty women stupid. (All arguements aside about the validity, it's a common thought.) Look at Velma and Daphne from Scooby Doo. Or, how about the idea that women need to be married to be happy? Take any Disney princess movie. They all seemed to be miraculously saved upon finding the love of their life. _____________________________ Delta: I think that most of the children's anime which plays on American tv would be ok to represent our cultural norms. I thought I would be arguing this the other way, until I starting comparing my points to American cartoons. For instance, I thought that the groups in shows like Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pokemon were geared more towards the Japanese idea of community first instead of the American individualism. However, most of these groups rotate around a leader, and that can be seen in cartoons from the USA, such as Rugrats, Foster's, and Recess. Also in these mainstream shows, the girls play very typical female roles. They are definitely sidekicks, not leads. Tae in Yu-Gi-Oh! does the emotional, sweet, caring role. Mai is the hot, independant one. With Misty in Pokemon, you have the cute side represented in what she likes and the over-emotional side in her temper. And, although I haven't watched many of the Pokemon with her, isn't May supposed to be kind of dingy? These are all very typical female roles, even in America where we are supposed to be more "enlightened." The same thing goes for the boys, being strong and protective, etc. I think the big general cultural norms work for us, even though the shows are from Japan. Now, some the smaller, more specific may not. It's been too long since I've watched either to remember enough to comment on that. But, these are my first impressions after reading your post.
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Deltakiral
Posts: 3338 Location: Glendora, CA (Avatar Hei from Darker than BLACK) |
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Ok let me get this defintion out there first....perhaps I should of used Socialization (Instead of Cultural Norm), meaning that mass media can help initiate people into society and help fit in. Demonstrating dominant behaviors and norms, such it's observational learning. Originally my class was looking at how children learn from TV shows (regardless of Origins) I am furthering that discussion by looking at how (certain programs aimed at kids) television show may/may not be right way of learning about normal life style. The discussion could be based on children in Japan learning from anime or either American children. It's not meant to be region specific althought it might be.
Right I agree we just didn't have time for lots of other shows, we watch part of Seasme Street episode as well. And how editing effects a news cast.
Yea I agree as well with that, I never even thought of the reference to SD, that really does make a lot of sense in how pretty girls are suppose to less intelligent then those who aren't. Very compelling arguement, I really like the bit about grabbing them early...it's so true. |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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Out of curiousity, did anyone really question this? I mean, did someone actually suggest that "talking" to a biker gang would be a good idea? Good luck with that! 
About how anime children's programs help children to fit into society by teaching them proper behavior, I think most of the time anime works fine. Even though it's from Japan, all civilized cultures have certain common elements like helping the sick/elderly and providing for the community in some way. Personally, I'd think that anime is a much better influence than American children's programing. A lot of the stuff made over here has a theme of "stupid is good." Look at Spongebob or Camp Lazlo or, to a lesser degree, Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends. The "hero" figures are all morons. At least in Pokemon, Ash seems to have at least average intelligence. |
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DemonEyesLeo
 Posts: 844 Location: Japan |
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"Norm" is the term used to describe the set of rules, both written and unwritten, and values within a society; typically these are deeply rooted in the culture. There's 3 types: Folkways, mores (more-ays) and laws. Laws are self-explainitory. Folkways are basically "faux pas," if you break them you may get a funny look from others. Mores are more serious than folkways but not as serious as laws, though there is some overlap; if you break a more you may not be punished like you would if you broke a law, but you'd probably be shunned by the rest of society. An example of a folkway would be standing with your back facing the doors when riding an elevator; it's not illegal, but it might make the people you're riding with feel weirded out. A more could be something like binge drinking; once again, it's not illegal (unless of course you drive while doing it) but hurts you, your family, and there's institutions to help those who do it. Now onto the point of this thread.... Mass media isn't the only way to socialize, but it does play a role. As far as anime goes in socializing Western children I think it can be helpful in some areas. While America and Japan may have many different norms, there are many norms that are universal. The example of Ash and his friends throwing trash away is something that works pretty much anywhere; but here's the thing, the children need to be reinforced with what they've seen. What I mean is, if they see adults throwing away trash they can then make a connection with what the adult was doing and what Ash was doing as something that is socially desirable. Now let's look at something that's distinctly Japanese like, let's say, taking your shoes off before entering the house. It's not something that's done very often in American homes, so if an American child watches an anime character take his shoes off but never sees an adult do it, they're not going to make that connection. The reinforcement, however, would be made with a Japanese child and then they would be socialized to that specific norm of Japanese society. So for the most part, anime can help to socialize children in the areas that are not distinctly Japanese. Socialization really happens when there's reinforcement. PS. I like this thread. Time to put some of my studies to use. |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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I don't know what you're talking about. Cartoons can have plenty of effects on influencing children. I can't say that I've known any children who didn't like or watch cartoons. I'd be willing to bet that it affects many, if not the majority of them (it did me).
Uh ya, she's a lot like Misty in the anime besides having the "angry" side to her, she's even voiced by the same person (English voice). Although, she is a playable lead character in the game. But the lead game character's don't really have any sort of personality, as they don't even speak... apparently they want you to decide what their personality is like. Imo, that just seems like being lazy though... As far a Pokemon goes and having a negative affect on children though... I don't really see it. What was pointed out was very minimal, and the good it portrays far outweighs the bad from what I've seen (which would be like 300+ episodes). Imo, there are far worse shows aimed at children that have much more negative concepts.
I don't know about the other shows, but Spongebob isn't really a moron. He's childlike and pretty naive, but he's not stupid. Patrick on the other hand... Edit: My bad, it's Ash's voice that is the same as May's. Well, the point still stands that they're similar regardless. Last edited by PantsGoblin on Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jaybug39
Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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You know Delta, I don't watch much ordinary TV. History channel, C-SPAN, NASA TV, anime, food network, maybe something about cars and trucks, and FOOTBAL!!! I work evenings so I don't see primetime hit shows, so they mean nothing to me. And the few times I have had the opportunity, I was nauseated by what I saw. Makes no difference to me, live or animated. They don't have many morals to deliver to audiences older than 4 years of age, unlike anime, which thrives on at least teen type dilemmas.
Take a poll of convicted prisoners, asking if they watched Sesame Street when little. Ask them if they watched the ultra-violent Tom and Jerry, or Heckyl and Jeckyl, or Baby Huey, Little Lulu, etc. I bet it comes out a wash. Making no nevermind whatsoever. |
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Richard J.
Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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coldspider
 Posts: 187 |
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Well I believe the discussion itself maybe inherently flawed since the issue of whether the cartoon is classified as either 'entertainment' or 'educational programming' isn't addressed.Just because a cartoon is aimed at kids,you can't automatically assume that it should classify as educational programming,or that it should have some educational value.
Take Batman:The Animated Series for example.I grew up with Batman TAS and we all know Batman didn't stop the Joker and his lackeys using words,he used his fists and a bunch of batarangs to get the job done.Now if Batman TAS was considered to be educational programming,then a discussion about how it effects children and how it relfects the culture is warranted.But if the show is only meant to be a form of entertainment,I don't see how you can have the same sort of discussion. |
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Ragg
Posts: 144 |
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I think that cartoons have a heavy impact on how kids act, but not really how they'll grow up. My little brother is obsessed with cartoon network, and he imitates all the commercials. The random dances by the characters fromt he show, and everything else. He takes these things to school and makes "activities" out of them too. Another kid while I was out shopping kept on shouting "game on"(I think that's from yugioh gx??....) which was very annoying.
I know that when I was a kid I used to throw "pokeballs" and stuff, but now I don't exactly whip out my pokedex when I don't recognize a food or whatever... It's just something kids can relate to. They just imitate what they see on TV, since they think it's "cool" or "fun." They might try and imitate the weapons, or whatever, but in the long run I dont think it really has a negative affect on them. Basically cartoons are a good form of entertainment for kids in moderation, I mean my little brother, I have to snap in front of his face 10 times during dinner just to get him to finish it... It all depends I guess, some people are more prone, I remember I just sat quietly while watching disney movies, while my brother jumps around and shouts and repeats the lines by memory as they happen. |
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DemonEyesLeo
Posts: 844 Location: Japan |
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True. But we can also look at the latent (hidden, underlying) functions of these shows. The manifest (the obvious, primary) function is to be entertaining to children, just like Batman was. But what about the underlying themes of that show? Let's look at what Batman actually did: yeah, he fought with his fists and gadgets, but he also fought for justice and the criminals were punished at the end. Violence aside, justice and the consequences of crime are certainly things we want our children to learn. This is a recurring theme in children's shows everywhere in the world. Other themes you can see in children's shows include: believe in yourself, play fair, don't do "this" or "that" and all that jazz. These are values that society holds and so the shows are a means to socialize children to them. They may not be educational per se, in fact if I wanted my children to be educated I'll have them read a book instead of watching TV; though I think the acception would be to shows that actually are educational, like Sesame Street. But children's shows don't have to be like Sesame Street to be factor in the socialization of some norms. Yes, children's shows are meant, first and foremost, to be entertaining. But the more entertaining the show is the more likely it is for children to watch it; and if they watch it there's the opportunity to present the themes listed above and have the children get somewhat of an understanding of the norms. |
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