Forum - View topicNEWS: Bandai: Do Not Fansub Ghost in the Shell Film
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Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I don't think it's unfair nor do I think it's trivializing it, matter of fact I think if anything it more accurately demonstrates the mindset. You're essentially demanding other peoples hard work be handed to you for free with no form of payment for their work. That's pretty much slavery, the only difference is they're not required to do it, but if they want to do what they love then they have to accept that they have no rights in order to allow you the rights you seem to think you deserve. So in every sense it seems like elitism and superiority.
Great, so then we'd have to give up the full immersion and enjoyability of an artform because a group of elitist pricks decided they had the right to steal from others and that if they wanted their rights then their rights would have to be protected in a manner that conformed to their theft. It would taint the artform, not to mention the oversaturation of advertizing mediums would cut gains and anime is too much of a niche market to survive off advertizements alone. The saturation would drive the price down and the fact it's relatively obscure would drive it down further, in the process only ensuring the poor get poorer and anime would sink further into obscurity as funds dried up.
Who cares if it's not for profit because it denies the creators and artists their profits. It still fails to repay the creators for what they spent and it's still essentially the honorable consumers that pay for what the vultures take. Once again it tramples the rights of everyone else just to give a thief their supposed right to steal. Not to mention limiting the scale wouldn't work because it's not working now, there's no reason it would work then and by legitimizing it to any degree you simply increase the availibility and usage.
Why should I believe a fan over a corporation? Especially when the corporation supports the artist and it's corporations of all sizes from small studio houses to large businesses that are against it. A fan on the other hand has demonstrated they will take what they want and openly admit they have little to no consideration for the artists themselves, so why should I believe them? It seems they'll believe anything as long as it justifies their right to trample rights of others. I simply don't believe anyone who'd piss on peoples rights for simple greed. Not to mention the fan doesn't have the numbers, the corporations do. Sure, you could say the fans have nothing to gain. But that isn't true either because they have free anime to gain, and the loss of that to any degree is significant. It's all conjecture, but honestly only one side has the hard facts and works for the artists, while the other seems to just work for themselves which is no more honorable than they claim the corporations to be, possibly less so because they don't even consider the artists on their side. Really is biting the hand that feeds here. They create it, they spend the money on it and they are praised for what they create until they actually ask for payment for it. Then the same people say "screw you" to the same people they claimed to respect and the talent that create the entertainment they love so much just because they apparently don't believe those people have the right to earn for doing their job. |
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vroenis
Posts: 61 Location: Australia |
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Forgive me, but I simply want to add perspectives outisde of this thread exclusively. This one would be from John at Anime Nation. I'm not attempting to use his comments as any kind of argument pro or con, simply adding perspective. I found this partiuclar article rather insightful.
Last edited by vroenis on Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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I'll take the 5 minutes to prove every single one of your points wrong and show you just how ignorant your post is.
Gits:SAC was not dubtitled or closed captioned. Gits 2 was, go blame Dreamworks. And anime dvds are NOT drm'd. Try again. Non-backup-able? Can you back up any of your DVDs? (The answer to that is "I can but I am too lazy to bother.")
DVD moves easily between computers. XVID is illegal to use. Divx is not open. IF they DID produce a video like that (Japan would never let them), it would have more DRM on it than the DVD. Also, $1 for a movie? And you expect them to make a profit? Whatever you do for a job, could you make a profit if your work was available for $1 on the market?
Making my life easy here? No licensors = No anime. |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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Sounds like a great reason not to believe an anime company or licensor. I mean, they're not selling you the discs at a markup for YOUR good, are they? No. That's called simple greed. Not that fansubbers/those that download them are free from greed either; but to deny that a corporation works out of greed and then point fingers at fans is laughable at best. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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But you are. You are clearly of reduced mental function. Why should I have to stop short of saying the truth simply because I work here? I shouldn't. You're allowed to come into my forums and say whatever garbage you like, which means I'm allowed to call you on it in whatever manner I choose. I say "you're an idiot" not entirely as an insult, but because I sincerely believe it to be true. You are apparently too stupid to understand that entertainment costs money to make and that revenue is generated by people who pay for it. You either haven't thought about this, don't know what capitalism is, or don't understand what "business" is. I assume you're smart enough to operate a computer; that you apparently don't understand that money is traded for goods and services means you are - under the dictionary definition of the word - stupid. I'd say that I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's true. You, sir, are an idiot. |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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Yes they are. It's called CSS. That we can get around it thanks to Johansen is irrelevant to the question of whether or not they're drm'ed. You try again. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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DuoSagara
Posts: 16 Location: Jindai High School |
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Yet another good point, Zac. I believe from what I've seen that 99% of the thread posts have been made by those who d/l anime somewhere, somehow. And now we are completely immersed in a time of piracy. It is painfully obvious that d/l is done simply to get it free, and not to help urge companies to license it faster or at all. I personally don't think it has ever been that goal from day one, if we would all look in our own greedy little souls. This point is true-anime is a form of entertainment. Those who embark in this form of a career are seemingly on the thinnest ice pertaining to income. Add what fansubbers do and it cripples their income more. There is NO CHANCE of a downloaded show in the HERE AND NOW that will somehow spring this entertainer's income in the future. He/she has no future due to the fact that their first endeavor has generated no profit. If you were to start your career, work for a year, and then were told you won't get paid, you would be completely idiotic to keep working in that field. Entertainers won't keep doing what they are doing just for its artistic merit. Soon, even the largest established companies are doomed to fall, such as the companies who distribute this media, like a Musicland. It's nice to think that fansubbing and downloading anime is a nice way to see it fast, but in the end, the cash flow stops, and reality sets in. By the way...Zac was just using name calling as the usual intenet way of saying hello. That's what forums are for in the end. infinite ways of bashing and proving that your point isn't right, it's just another one. One last thing. I'm glad to see that many people who pirate stuff at least know who Bandai is. But then again, keep your friends close, and your enemies closer, ne? |
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AirCooledMan_2006
Posts: 594 Location: Delaware, U.S. |
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People will still fansub it, regardless.
If they do, then at least take it out of circulation once it's brought Stateside. (Easiest for them to do that via BitTorrent, as I read in one of the editorials here.) After all, fansubs are a necessary evil, as they help make anime popular as well as accessible. Die Wahrheit wird befreiet euch setzen. Tschäu! |
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m00nshine
Posts: 62 Location: Knoxville |
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(The following is a dramatization and is not meant to be taken seriously)
Hi, we are Bandai, we have so much money that we can bully around these small websites who work hard to provide our show to its fans as quickly as possible for no financial gain of their own. These activities are going to cost us 5 to 10 % of our multi-million dollar profits and we must stop them. Let's face it, our CEO is a cranky man when he doesn't get to bathe in money. |
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DuoSagara
Posts: 16 Location: Jindai High School |
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This is kinda like the chicken or the egg, here. You're basically saying that fansubs have to be there for anime companies to see the anime. Sorry, but anime kinda came before free dowloading. But greed came built into humans first. SO, once there was this entertainment, we wanted it for free. Pretty simple. Last edited by DuoSagara on Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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I, in return, will not choose to call you an idiot. I choose to view culture/media as something that humanity owns, rather than individuals or licensors. As such, I also feel that we can develop ways to pay for shows (example: PBS. BBC/CBC. Or NPR. Hell, there are a TON of examples really) that are sustainable. It's a different view. Yes, I'm quite aware of how capitalism works, and how it doesn't work. And to let you know, it doesn't work at all in the distribution of non-scarce resources. And that's what culture is in the age of digital distribution. I don't consider your view idiotic; just different and outdated. Mine simply doesn't believe in private ownership, nor in artificially imposing a scarcity economic system on something that is fundamentally non-scarce now. |
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ladholyman
Posts: 56 |
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I'll fansub this. Nah, actually, I won't. It's too much work. Never seen GiTS, no motivation.
But I'm pretty sure someone will. Kind of hard to stop anonymous people over the Internet. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Like crime and war, and the human being's never stopping desire for greed, power and sex. People will never stop buying anime, and people will never stop downloading fansubs. To nagashi: If were we to download evrey single piece of media that we could get our hands on, at some point we will not be able to download new materials. I see that you are a hardhead, and will stick to your views of this issue till the very end. In the case of that, I feel sorry for you, because even though you feel you are right, the fact of the matter is that a whole lot of other will see that you are wrong, am getting into a pointless argument with Zac, and only making yourself look bad. I am one of those people also that think you are wrong. |
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Pleroma
Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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They still make money. Untill I literally have my own personal animator slave camp that analogy fails. I simply do not believe that any artist NEEDS compensation for every single copy of a work, especially not in a world were such a copy can be so easily made by absolutely anyone.
Perhaps 5 years was a bit on the short side, but the point remains that artists hogging exclusive rights for pretty much forever (even after death in some cases) is ridiculous. Doesn't mean that after a few years the whole work becomes fair game but things such as exclusive rights to characters or film/spinoff rights would expire after a while. I have very much the same aspirations as yourself actually, but I am still on the side of the freedom of information movement.
Actually both work for themselves, corporations only pay the artist to make money off their creation, nothing more. /soapbox People can argue about it for however long thet want but the reality is that the anti-piracy side is fighting a loosing battle. The amount of online information grows each day and new methods of distribuition always seem to be just around the corner. Even if a government tried to seriously police the greater internet there will be subnets where anonimity is complete. The movement for total privacy is quite technically capable and unlike any single governemnt it can freely operate from anywhere. Its like gerrila warfare really, and we all know who has the advantage in that situation. Its not about like or dislike, but about how can businesses adapt and survive. /soapbox |
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