Forum - View topicDoes anybody miss the "boom" years?
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Joe Carpenter
 Posts: 503 |
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I think we all remember it, that brief but glorious period of time in which anime was steadily gaining popularity, actually selling dvds and was seemingly considered "hip"
the peak of it was about from 2003 to 2008, I would say, it was basically kicked off by Miyazaki winning the Oscar I think, but by the end of the 2000's and the start of this decade it was totally, utterly dead it all seems so unbelievable in hindsight, like a dream almost, considering how far removed the modern world is from it, nothing like that could ever happen again I don't think (though I'd love to be proven wrong), it seemed like it was everywhere for a while, there was lots of it on TV, I remember the now extinct chain of stores Media Play (anyone remember those?) even had an entire section of the store devoted to anime, with more anime dvds then I've ever seen in my life all in one place (it was freakin' glorious), there was even a defunct video game magazine I used to read that had a page of the magazine devoted to anime, which would seem totally, utterly crazy today (I mean imagine Gameinformer having that), but it made perfect sense at the time (and speaking of magazines there used to be a lot more magazines devoted to anime then then there are now, I think there's only one left maybe?) then it all just started to.....fade away, one company after another shut it doors and it gradually faded from the public spotlight, anime is kind of back where it was in the 90's, that is to say it still has a devoted following, but it's totally underground now, any flirtations with mainstream appeal are dead I have a pet theory for one reason why it may have happened, it seems like every so often American gains a fascination with a foreign country, the country in question becomes cool, it all started I guess in the 60's with the British Invasion (The Beatles etc), then in the 80's you had fascination with Australia (Livin' in a Land Down Under, Crocodile Dundee, Mad Max), in the 90's it seems like America was fascinated with Celtic culture, both Scottish and Irish (The Cranberries, Braveheart, River Dance) and finally, in the 2000's it was Japan's turn, America had gotten over seeing them as economic rivals and instead saw them as cool (The Last Samurai is one example of this, as is all the J Horror remakes like The Ring) and it just so happened that there was already a following for something Japanese in America, anime, which got a boost from this general Japanese hipness but it's over now (the last J Horror remakes for example were all released in 2008), America is too self centered these days, there's just no room for appreciation of another country in the age of Kim Kardashian, Twitter and Facebook, Americans are fascinated with America itself now |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Given that right now prices have never been lower (barring AoA) and access has never been better, you need to take off your rose-tinted glasses because the boom years were not the golden run that you think they were.
And Anime is not dead. Not in Japan obviously, and not in America. Nor is it dying. It's merely adjusting to changing market conditions, and it's doing quite well. Media Blasters aside, the industry is stable and functioning. Some Anime is still on television. Not many titles, but some, like Sword Art Online. And besides, the entertainment industry as a whole is embracing streaming or on-demand programming, which means television is no longer the goal that licensed Anime need aspire to. Speaking of streaming, legal Anime streaming has boomed; Crunchyroll is profitable - which many thought would never happen - and Viz has Neon Alley. You can even read legal Manga off your tablet. While the boom years are indeed over, they were a blip, a bubble that popped like all bubbles inevitably do. An unsustainable period of growth and a cocaine-fuelled licensing binge. The early-to-mid noughties should not be held up as some sort of standard that we should judge the current industry by. As to your comment that Anime is underground, it actually isn't. It's faded somewhat but it hasn't sunk below ground as too many people remember it from their childhoods. Plus, I know from personal experience that getting friends and family into Anime is not impossible, so there are still people spreading the word. One guy I know watched eighteen episodes of From the New World literally just last night after I recommended it to him. So no; to answer your question I don't miss the boom years. |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1800 Location: South America |
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Since I don't come from the US I cannot know about that but in my country it appears that adult anime always was way underground: most people never heard of it. I also did not watch any anime during the years from 2003 and 2008 as well.
However, I guess that the global economic boom had something to do with it. People can afford to spend money and attention on peripheric means of entertainment, now that young people are unemployed maybe there is a tendency for people to contract on consumption of exotic forms of entertainment and to consume mostly the ordinary forms of entertainment. And finally, broadband internet is also a factor: since people download anime instead of buying it (either physically or by cable), the whole industry contracted and this has obvious effects on mainstream. Also, the fandom probably uses mostly the internet to communicate among themselves and so naturally the "real world" became less impacted by anime. |
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Joe Carpenter
Posts: 503 |
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@dtm
I'm talking about more than just the price of dvds, I'm talking about anime's place in American culture, I'm talking about the vibes of the time I've already provided evidence, Miyazaki winning the Oscar (very unlikely to happen again) for example, stuff like just shows that anime had a larger place in the public consciousness back then and it was not as looked down upon then as it is now, say anime to the average person and they're most likely to think of the creepy guy with the sexy anime figures and the love pillow collection who watches tentacle porn all day, it's not even remotely considered cool anymore, certainly not like American comic books, Doctor Who, Game of Thrones etc are, my local bookstore has tables devoted that kind of stuff near the front of the store, whereas the manga is a tiny little area near the back, like they're embarrassed of it but it was not like that then and that's what I miss, absolutely look, I'm not saying anime is dead, but it's undeniable that it's not as exciting to be a fan of it now than it was then [EDIT: You don't have to quote a big post like that. Just put "@user." It's pretty easy and a lot cleaner. Thanks. -TK] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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And yet this American Anime site is just empty and cannot find any news to report on, right? Wrong. There is still an Anime scene in North America.
One Oscar win and people go gaga and think Anime is in the big leagues. Spirited Away wasn't even Miyazaki's best work. That it won an Oscar - in just the animated film category - was a one-off, not a sign that Anime was firmly planted in the mainstream. Maybe if Anime films had won a slew of awards over several years then you'd have a point, but they didn't, so you don't. You are reading waaay too much into a one-off event. Depending on who you ask, the boom years lasted about five to seven years. One freak Oscar win and an admittedly cool album by Daft Punk scored to an animated film (5555: The 5tory of the 5ecret 5tar 5ystem) are pretty small victories to fill up that period of time. Anime was not in the mainstream, just a niche that got more publicity. American Idol was mainstream. Movies based on comic books are (now) mainstream. Masterchef is mainstream. Those X's Got Talent shows are mainstream. That ghastly show Modern Family is unfortunately mainstream. Shows like Family Guy and The Simpsons are or were mainstream. Anime was never ever ever mainstream in America.
Except you did:
So which is it? |
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Joe Carpenter
Posts: 503 |
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I said the boom years were dead, not anime itself
and yeah, it was never mainstream per se, but it flirted with it, it was at least a hell of a lot more mainstream than it is now or let me put it another way, it was at least more mainstream within the culture I care about, which is to say nerd culture, not your average American Idol watching one what's big in nerd culture now is Doctor Who, Game of Thrones, Call of Duty etc, but anime used to occupy a place at the table, do you not remember how big shows like Cowboy Bebop or Fullmetal Achemist were? now anime fans are nerds among nerds, were not getting any slice of that "geek chic" pie you could say anime is the Rodney Dangerfield of nerd culture, no respect! no respect at all! |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 10050 Location: Virginia |
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I don't miss the boom years at all. When something like anime booms, it just encourages poor business practices, people get into the business that shouldn't and they issue product that no one wants. And inevitably booms burst, that is the nature of the beast. When the bubble bursts it takes down the good with the bad. The manga business here still hasn't completely recovered from its associated boom and bust. As far as anime is concerned, DTM42 is right. We have it better now.
Anime was never mainstream. During the boom years it was well known in a larger group but among the people I knew only those involved with selling it had ever heard of anime. I currently get more name recognition out of HGTV than I ever did of all of anime during the boom. If you want to keep a hobby, a sustainable level of interest is better than a boom anytime. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4165 |
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It's no where near those levels; For one thing, it's being taken seriously. Back then, it was either kiddy fare or tentacle porn.
Which doesn't explain why anime now costs a tenth of what it used to. Barring AoA, as someone said...
Oh, it's all bout you, is that the problem? Nerds are fickle, geeks are for life. Don't confuse the two. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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There was no anime "boom" years, unless the definition was "Hey! Look what's on Cartoon Network!" or what small licenses were picked up by Blockbuster (but only after anime started trickling in).
I've been a fan of anime for a very long time, and what people consider a "boom" is actually more like the best of an iceberg being visible while the rest of anime was hidden. What was hidden was the stuff most fans today wouldn't enjoy. And let me be clear on this: most fans wouldn't enjoy it. Justin Sevakis is writing a weekly column titled "Pile of Shame" to which he talks about such titles. If he were to get $10 for each article, he could retire a multi-millionaire. I'm being a bit facetious, of course, but not when it comes to the fact. Justin has enough source material he will be busy for quite a while. For us older fans, we got to mire through this garbage, because we didn't have an internet to tell us "Stay away!" We randomly picked a few titles up here and there (fan sub copies were usually the only way, followed by rentals) and were duped by the cover art only to find utter disappointment recorded on the analog tape. 20 years from now, most of you will be in my position, where the future generation will be harping at how "bad" anime is while you're salivating at the technology improvements you can appreciate since you watched it change. Many fans today may not appreciate lavishly decorated yukatas on girls, which are animated, but I do, because yukatas in "my day" were solid colors, void of any patterns because animating them (by hand!) was expensive. Creatures today aren't mud blobs or two-tone "mechoids" that rip apart from a blazing sword. Backgrounds are gorgeous, and not single color, especially in action sequences, which today's fans get to see! What did we get? Pan and scan of static images. So, to me, this current generation of anime is the true "boom". I would strongly recommend you appreciate what you have, because in 20 years, you'll think otherwise. You can roll your eyes at it, but it's going to happen. As you get older, you fall into the "been there, done that" because entertainment will always be targeted to a select demographic, and your 40+ year old butt won't be in it, old timer. Yeah, it's been like that for me for a while, and I really want to slap you fans today who can't even appreciate what you have, pretending it was better years ago. Like movies, there will always be anime that can test time itself, but these are, and have always been, rare. See you in 20 years when you're lecturing anime fans! 
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Joe Carpenter
Posts: 503 |
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@Meso
there were no boom years? so companies like Geneon, ADV, Bandai USA, Manga Entertainment and Tokyopop, which were around and no longer are, is not indicative of a boom? you can debate whether the boom years were really that great or not, fair enough, but to say they never existed at all is just insane (and wrong) and notice, I never said anything about the quality of anime itself, I happen to think there's still a decent amount of good anime coming out these days, what I was talking about was anime's status in the USA, you're projecting, old timer 
[EDIT: Again, please don't quote really big posts. Simply put "@user." It's cleaner and less cluttered. -TK] |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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I wonder how much it was the end of anime bubble or just worldwide recession and change of the distribution brought by Net. Like Latin American literature and British comedy anime had a brief time of catching worldwide attention, then stepped back, forming it's niche. But saying that they lost anything would be oversimplification.
I'm also not from USA so I rely on informations from the Net, but I observed similar phenomena here in Europe. There was a hype for Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon thst started to establish a ground. Lots of publishers appeared out of the thin air, there was a better variety of comics than ever before or after (even geika titles), but when boom years were over only a few of them stood afloat, usually limiting their offer. It took them 10 years to wait till their target grow up and demand more than simplest shouens. For geek culture- geekdom isn't what it used to be. Again 10 years ago when something was on top, everyone watched it. Nowadays internet brought so much diversity that you don't know where to start. Most people don't like manga and anime per se, but don't hesitate when you offer them a particular title to watch or read. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5530 Location: Mexico |
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Actually, unlike you happy Americans, I do miss the "boom" years. At least we got some pretty decent manga licensed, and at really reasonable prices too (I will hold on to my beautiful Clover manga until I die. And it cost me the equivalent of 6.5 bucks per volume). There was also a whole network fully dedicated to anime (Locomotion first, then Animax). After the boom burst, the licensor went bankrupt, so we haven't seen an official manga release since uhh... I'd say 2009 *goes check* February 2010 to be exact. The anime network got bought by Sony and became the new teenager oriented crap network.
At least it's been picking up lately, with the Crunchyroll streaming. We got the Madoka Movies screened and they've been a huge success and apparently we're getting the newest Dragon Ball movie later this year. But as for the manga industry there seems to be nothing in the picture, and it'll take a while for the official anime media to become even remotely accessible |
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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I'm a PO'ed American, and I DO miss the Boom years. (Ie., I miss the years in which even the Japanese saw anime as a mainstream industry, and tried to pitch their product to the widest slots, instead of selling it to the niche "perverts" who they thought were their biggest audience.) I'm a North American male with less culturally enforced gender fears and a healthy attitude toward the opposite sex; I don't want my girls in maid outfits calling me "master", I don't want my little sister, I don't want a blank monotone robot, and I don't want one with tail and cat ea..........  ..........(get behind me, Satan  )
Oh, I can put a date on when it ended-- That was the great Crash of '08, when: A) single-volume disks that were supposed to fund anime-company dubs suddenly became dead in the water, after disgruntled fans realized that ADV would probably re-dip the Complete Series boxset three months after the last volume, so why not just be patient and wait? B) Best Buy waged their infamous "Princess in the title" tantrum against ADV for having to sell single-volume disks that weren't moving with mainstream audiences that barely recognized the title anyway, and pretty much cut off its last avenue of mainstream sales outside of Amazon, C) exporters sensed the boom, raised prices on the classics, and tried to sell current ratings-hit series like Negima while the getting was good. Companies jumped on to a "sure-fire" hit, only to find themselves stuck with a local-tastes dog that already had the bootleg and JP fans warning each other on the net--And only wasting resources that could have gone to licensing one big holy-grail show, like ADV did rescuing AnimEigo's Macross license. Back then Crunchyroll was barely even a bootlegger's complaint, so it WAS only the torrent bootleggers who knew which series were the ones to grab, but....nobody asked us, and we didn't identify ourselves in public.
Very, VERY unlikely to happen again. 
Spirited was his last career peak, and the only other time besides Kiki that one of his movies completely grabbed the brass ring with mainstream North American audiences. From here on in, he's going to get grumpier, kiddier and/or more nature-tradition ruminant, and nothing with any of those great mixes of spunky-girl and fantasy. Spirited was "The first Miyazaki you'd show anybody who'd never seen anime before", and as luck would have it, it was the first Ghibli to come out after the bomb-crater that Mononoke left...What were the odds? Like Tangled saving Disney after Princess & the Frog, it was one of those accidental miracles of good timing to save Disney/Ghibli after Princess Mononoke threatened to kill it off in the US overnight. |
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victor viper
 Posts: 630 Location: The deep south |
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Part of me is a little bit nostalgic for that period, but overall I have to agree with most of the points made by dtm42.
Anime was certainly more visible to mainstream audiences during the boom. However, I'll have to disagree with the original poster regarding the overall awareness of anime in mainstream audiences. For instance, at one point during the height of the British Invasion, the Beatles held the top 5 positions on the Billboard chart. Anime has never had that sort of penetration into the mainstream consciousness. For that matter, at its height of popularity Crocodile Dundee generated a fair number of memes (before anyone knew what a meme was) that had some recognition in the mainstream; I'm not sure that anime has ever even gotten to that level. For me, my most fond memory of the boom was being able to waltz into mall/big box stores and find plenty of anime for sale. Further, companies like Pioneer were putting out quality releases video-wise and there were plenty of extras to be had (I used to love those pencilboards that Pioneer would include with their DVD's). But, as dtm42 pointed out, this did not come without a cost. As companies like ADV licensed (and dubbed!) everything they could get their hands on, a good portion of that big wall of anime at your local Best Buy probably got returned to the manufacturer and might even be sitting in Rightstuf's bargain bin as we speak (on their website, Madlax volume 1 doesn't even have a counter yet, and there's 52 copies of volume 1 of Cyberteam in Akihabara still left; I guarantee some of those were on a display at a Best Buy somewhere). But, as novel as it was to be able to buy anime at big stores, and as great as it was to have quality releases, the boom sometimes wasn't so great. During the boom, there was no legitimate simulcasting, and so I bought many DVD's that got watched once and never again. Also, all those nice Pioneer DVD's came at a price via singles. For example, I spent about as much for my set of Kamichu DVD's (about $23 times 4) as for my set of Madoka Blu-Ray discs ($39 times 3). The anime consumer has more choices today. There's simulcasting of a large percentage of new shows, cost per episode of DVD releases of new shows is lower than it's ever been, and if I want to splurge for a nice release of something I really like, NISA and AoA come into the picture. And, as a consequence of the boom/bubble, when I now buy a new release, it doesn't come with the fear that had I just waited three months, I could have gotten exactly the same product for 60% less. So overall the boom period would be more aptly described as a "bubble". It was the perfect storm where there was a period of (apparent) prosperity in the US followed by a severe correction paired with malinvestment as companies drastically overestimated the demand for their products. If anything, a better analogy for the boom would be the great videogaming crash of 1982-85. |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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If you're going to use this as a foundation for your position, then you should realize that either the boom is still going on or that the boom occurred later than the referenced time frame. There is more anime being released today than there was 10-20 years ago. The only acceptable definition of "boom" I could back is that these companies fired the first shot, creating the "boom", but we're all still hearing the echo. However, I tend to see people using the word "boom" to indicate those titles were better "years ago" and "what got them into anime" (including this one). This leaves me with the rhetorical question of thinking: Would you not be a fan of anime today if it wasn't for those titles you watched years ago? That's a question that comes with a grain of salt when people are quick to answer "Yes!" You can't pretend that talking about today's anime vs. older anime isn't influencing the purpose of this discussion. At least, not with me. I'm not saying the position you hold is bad. I'm just saying I don't agree with it, and since you resorted to calling my position as "insane" proves we're looking at the issue differently. I don't discount what the older companies did. I discount the fact the premise is indicating it's still not happening today. Just because people aren't buying manga and anime in physical form seems to exclude there's no interest, and to me, that's insane. 
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