Forum - View topicNEWS: Building Better Anime in Beijing
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Sylex
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Amazing.
Considering the popularity of anime among teenagers, who are slated to become the next generation of law-makers and social norms in Chinese society, this could go a long way in restoring relations between Chinese and Japanese cultures, which have been at odds ever since World War II. Or at the very least it could promote more understanding between the two. |
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Dorasaga
 Posts: 20 |
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 I think most of us in America had been too optimistic about China's intention. China had successfully profited from foreign investments in the sense of stealing skills and technology that progress the elites of China.
Chinese government regulates information flow in its country with iron fist, as we had witnessed through the severe pressure put on every search engine company over there(includes google.cn). The purpose of China is to rule from the top by its own traditional values, and a temporary cooperation is just part of the plan. Watch out! Few years after the academy be founded, when Chinese would found more competitive anime/manga firms themselves, China will find a reason to incite riots and teach students that Japanese anime/manga reflect the violent and chauvinist nature of "J A P S"--- The academy will be punished 'because of some "improper" values or actions. Again, China will prove to the world that only China is the perfect leader of Asia. |
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Sylex
Posts: 19 |
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Find "spiffy" new product or technology, steal its design, copy in mass quantities, then attempt to monopolize the commodity (fabrics, anyone?) or force a new standard (let's all ditch 802 and switch to WAPI, which we know absolutely nothing about!). Such behavior seems to be the Chinese way. In addition, Chinese officials seem to be a handful of the most capricious people in the world, always forming odd conclusions and making strange decisions.
Let's think back to 2002 when a Chinese telecom company was accused by the US of assisting Iraq in the installation of high-tech communications equipment for Sadam's regime. In response, China moved thousands of troops to the eastern Pacific border and retargeted several ICBM missiles to the US west coast, apparently preparing for a US invasion that neither Bush nor any member of Congress was even close to considering. That was a weird thing to do. Of course, we are talking about the country that officially damages its own relations with its own pacifist neighbor Japan whenever Japan does anything related to the perpetrators of Japan's WWII invasion of China. We are talking about the country that makes me want to tell people, "If you think your privacy is somehow being invaded here in the US, go live a stint in China." We are talking about the country that refers to another country by an offensive slang term in its own school textbooks (this part really makes me angry). And above all, we are talking about the country that has produced almost no renowned art or literature since the fall of its last dynasty. What does this mean? It means we are looking at a nation that has a little too much national pride in the face of an entire world that has been surpassing it in terms of technology and society. To publish its illusion to the general Chinese population that China is just as good as any other nation, China doesn't just require creativity in the technology and entertainment areas, it positively leeches it from other nations. Forty years ago, China didn't have half of the electronic trinkets that the rest of the world enjoyed. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a cheap electronic trinket not made in China. And as bad as that may sound, I believe that all of the copied technology, literature, and animation are doing some small part in making at least the most receptive of the Chinese more open to international relations by showing them an example of what other nations enjoy. With the sole exception of its filmmaking talent, which has been pioneered into international recognition by a few select prodigies such as Li Ang and Zhang Zhi Yi, China has yet to demonstrate that it can innovate novel or quality technology and entertainment. Cooperation that will likely result in an improvement to this? Yes please. So what will be the long term forecast for this cooperation between Japan and China? I don't think anyone is sufficiently qualified to predict what the Chinese leaders will do about this in time. However, I do have high hopes for what kind of message this will get across to the younger generation of Chinese. Perhaps it will alert them to something very interesting and beautiful that the Japanese can offer, and divert their attention away from the horrible "J-a-p Bandits" stereotype. The best part is, anime and manga style is not something easily captured, especially by a nation so used to copying static blueprints for technology. Anime has no blueprint, so even if they get the elusive art style down, I doubt China could produce something similar without foreign assistance. For this reason I don't believe we have to worry about China doing the same thing with anime/manga that it has tried to do with wireless standard. And if China can't competently make its own, the government will not be able to afford trying to turn the nation against it, especially if it becomes popular there, because it would risk hurting the credibility of the government. It's almost a Catch-22 situation for them. And hey, at the very least, we won't have to look at a horribly lie-ridden, badly animated, pseudo-cartoon drawn in some strange mesh of anime and American styles every time we want to look at what shows are on the "CCTV-4" channel each afternoon. 
Oh, the power of anime. |
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minakichan
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Um, OK.
Yes, China has problems and nationalism, and in some cases racism. I would totally agree, being from Taiwan. But I think lots of your claims (Dorasaga, Sylex) are... well, really prejudiced, and kind of unfair. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think...
...is going in the OPPOSITE direction of Chinese nationalism/anti-Japanese sentiment. Yes, some Chinese companies are just trying to capitalize on the "look and feel" of Japanese anime, to make it into a Chinese product. But actually using the word "Japan" the research center (as opposed to some generic animation term) and cooperating with a group of Japanese parliamentarians sure doesn't sound like Chinese Japan-hate self-superiority to me. What I'm trying to say is, not all Chinese people are haters, they're not all incompetent exploiters of other people's creativity, and they aren't all obsessed with maintaining the status quo and "tradition" if you will. China's government isn't China's people (of course not). (And really, Chinese Japanese-hate is NOT as widespread as many outsiders believe.) I think this stereotypes, this prejudgment, that makes people believe that exploitation and racism is just a course of being Chinese, is all almost as bad and unfounded as Chinese Japan-hate. |
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Dorasaga
Posts: 20 |
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To minakichan:
Sure, there are many many people from China who don 't hate Japan and who don 't act out chauvinism, but out of 1.3 billion+ of population, if we minus the 900 million farmers who are having trouble feeding themselves, the rest are intellects or highly-educated work force in China. This is an elite group enjoying nearly all the resources the 70% of this poor country will never imagine they are producing through sacrificing their lives, for that MiG jet or IBM notebook. These farmers can't spare a penny to care about Japan or anime, but on CCTV, the elite group of China is brainwashing them about Japan's prime minister visiting a shrine "full of bellicose militarism", and the government of China is rightfully protesting (in addition to tons of other bellicose militarist Japan-in-action news). One of the reasons why the farmers haven't thought of rioting like they did fifty years ago is probably: They worry about Japan an ally of USA, shoots missiles on them, destroys their farmland. So, they better trust their government, and the elite exploiting them, by endlessly sacrificing their lives again and again. I 've met a lot of Chinese intellect across the States from all sorts of background. Some were raised with help of White godparents, some were second generation, and some are PhD students getting a higher degree in order to get better-paid when back to China. They share two traits:
2. emotional Chauvinist: will not admit Taiwan as an independent sovereignty, look down on Japan, and think United States is a threat to China's political well-being-- not necessarily economical (ironically, most of them have home/house in US). Does that ring you a bell? btw,
Actually, Ang Li is from Taiwan. He learned cinematography at UIUC (Illinois) and returned Taiwan, jobless for 6 years, before he directed the trilogy films "Pushing Hands", "Wedding Banquet", and "Eat Drink Man and Woman"-- the first two are set in America about highly-educated, bourgeois, 2nd-generation Taiwanese Americans having value different from their parents'. Not surprising, their parents are bourgeois "forced" Chinese immigrants into Taiwan, following Chiang Kai-shek's withdrawal from China, 1949. Ang Li uses this unique culture as a pivot to constrain the plot. Well... the rest you can find out yourself by watching the film. |
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Lanfear
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Its quite funny to see all the China bashing. I fail to see how this importation of Japanese anime into China will mean that anime will be "stolen", the technology will be "copied". Its not as if anime takes rocket science to produce. What makes anime good is the creative mind behind it. Alot of anime production is outsourced to South Korea already and I fail to see Japanese animators fighting for their livelihoods from upstarts in Korea. The Koreans also happen to share the Chinese "trait" of badgering Japan about Yasukuni. Maybe they are "backwards" and "out to steal the anime technology". The Japanese emperor doesnt visit Yasukuni and a large portion of the population oppose Koizumi's visits. The main reason being that there are war criminals enshrined. Do you believe it is right to worship "deities" who led an army that massacred countless civilians? No one is bitching about the rank and file soldiers enshrined.
Now I am not saying that the Chinese or the South Korean government push the issue just because of their morals, they should. Everything is politics. Koizumi visits Yasukuni in order to hold together his core support group...which he needs in order to push through economic reforms. He didn't get the largest banking privitization just by being charming. China is also going through reforms and a strong national issue will help cement the movement. Main problem with CHina right now is the huge economic divide. By keeping the peasants glued to the issue of Japanese "imperialism" the Chinese goverment can have time to address some very urgent issues and keep itself in power. As for South Korea it is a matter of national identity and the leadership pushing the idea of an unified Korea to the younger generation. Many young people in South Korea nowadays can care less about North Korea...Yasukuni is a way to remind them of the history North and South Korea shares. Also for some of you, unless you have actually been to China, talked to the peasants there who "never imagine they are producing through sacrificing their lives, for that MiG jet or IBM notebook" I suggest you keep your comments to yourself. Just because people are peasants doesnt mean they are dumb. Many sees the economic boom in costal cities and are dissatisfied. They are not scared of Japan launching missiles at them...thats just ludicrous. Why do countless Chinese from the countrysides move into the cities? Because they know what life can be. Many people who are the elite atm began their life as mere peasants. By moving into the cities and hopefully finding a decent job, they may well join the growing middle class. This is a classic example of a rise of a middle class driven nation. Every country that has undergone Industrialization went through the same phase as the class divide grew and more people moved into the cities. Do some research on European history in the late 1800s and early 1900s. There are alot of similarities. p.s. Dorsaga, I dont know what planet you are from however I have never seen an educated Chinese American like that. Alot is cultural pride as they see what China was for the past 2000 years and what China is now. This leads to nationalism...yet people still appreciate the US and Japan. Funny isnt it that some of the most ardent supporters of Chinese democracy lives in the US? They see US as a model of what CHina should be, and Japan as proof that China can achieve that level of success. |
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Dorasaga
Posts: 20 |
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Dear Lanfear:
I agree with you about visiting Yasukuni shrine and China's diversion of attention are political moves intended to keep the governments in power. But even if you know that far, why are you not reasoning that local Chinese government is using an anime academy as a temporary diversion to its own political mischief? Your opinions reflect the dogma taught by many American scholars full of idealist background and pro-China stance: China as a multilateral partner moving the world into a peaceful capitalist world. A typical classical economist will tell you something similar as well. But you missed four points, which you probably chose to ignore: (1) Peasant reform, (2) Limit of personal experience, (3) Anime and media not effective at bridging the gap, and (4) What is Yasukuni, or the traditional behaviors that changed? I will first tackle one at this time. 1. Peasant reform. You probably haven't read about the last reform agenda brought out at the People's Committee few months ago. It HAS BEEN a POLICY of China to consume agricultural resources for urban development, especially along the coasts but not using urban resources or much national income on agricultural areas. Look at this from another way: For decades, even most Chinese themselves had ignored the poor condition of peasants/farmers, whom in general make 1/4 to what urban folks are earning. And the more inland you go, the poorer the peasants are. The influx of peasants into cities is not improving peasant situation. On a side note, many peasants who entered cities and tried as "industrialized" workers become homeless, and of course, not so easy to squeeze into middle class. China had been sacrificing peasants/farmers in order to improve Shanghai or Beijing and a few pinpointed cities, that the Communist government at Zhongnanhai, the power house in Beijing, favors. There of course are a few reasons why China favors these cities. The simplest summary for these reasons: it's easiest, it's fastest, it's high return, it's symbolic, it's helping Zhongnanhai most directly. And peasant reform? This might take 50 years or more, and nobody wants to be blamed and end up like Kuomintang 60 years ago, or Great Leap Forward 40 years ago, or Zhao Ziyang 20 years ago. As a trilinguist, I have the fortune to read primary sources in Chinese and Japanese, and I recommend you to do the same. A way to start: use online translator for the words "Farm", "Village", "Reform", "China", and then Google all these as keywords, in Chinese. Find a way to translate the content in full. You' ll be surprised. |
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