Forum - View topicDubs or Subtitles?
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Stupidman007
Posts: 394 |
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To me, it's all about the setting.
In eastern settings, such as Japan and most of Asia, I'd prefer subs. However, If the setting was in Europe or America, then I'd prefer dubs assuming that they are of high quality. Language should fit with the culture that the setting is trying to depict. Anime series such as Chrno Crusade or even non-anime shows like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon loses a lot of the feel when it's in the wrong language. |
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DemonEyesLeo
Posts: 844 Location: Japan |
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I'm indifferent. I watch and enjoy both; with the pros and cons that come with each, I like to get the best of both worlds. Niether is better nor worse than the other; and niether is more "original" than the other; it's all a matter of preference.
(Man, I sound like a broken record) |
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Enjeru
Posts: 221 |
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Well from my experience when I took my first semester in Japanese I had 4 students who were from Korea.....and they said the 2 have very little in common. If you are refering to Kanji, yes Japan uses Chinese characters for their Kanji. However most of the time the translation and even the way it is pronounced is way different. Like I stated before, I have 3 years of Japanese under my belt and can understand about 3/4 of an episode(rough estimation) without the use of any subtitles. I am sorry to say that fansubbers make mistakes too. More often than most people will ever know. Another thing you need to take into consideration is the english script has to match the mouth flaps. Even at the cost of the sentence being altered in a small way. What we are really talking about is a very small difference between the english and japanese translation. It is not nearly the huge gulf that most make it out to be. To answer your question as to why fansubbers dont get paid, its because it is illegal to fansub and send it out to be downloaded. While I know most people don't care about this, I do. Everytime someone downloads a series and refuses to pay for it when it becomes avalible for purchase, it hurts not only the american anime industry, but the japanese as well. In no way am I trying to say that anyone who likes sub over dub is wrong in their thinking. However when people start talking about which is more "true".....unless you are fluent in Japanese, dub and sub are going to have their mistakes and will never be 100%. |
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Lainofthenet
Posts: 44 Location: Canada |
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I used to be very much in favor of subtitling only but in recent years there have been some very good dubs. I enjoy Furi Kuri either way and love the voices equally. I also think Chris (dead pan delivery) Patton nailed the Sousuke character in Full Metal Panic. Sometimes I think the setting can affect which one I prefer. Hellsing sounds better with the British accents and in Chrono Crusade I feel the Satella character makes a lot more sense with her German accent intact. I don't mind the fact that Ghibli has dub tracks on the new releases but I have an issue with how Billy Crystal handles Calcifer - too much "cracking wise" for me. In Steamboy I do not really have a problem with Patrick Stewart doing "Lloyd Steam" but I cringed at the extra interviews with him and Anna Paquin. I think the word "Japanime" was mentioned. I confess I have had a problem with him since the last Trek film ("best work we as a cast have done to date") - HA! I understand the thinking behind casting big names in the "Big" films but maybe the people who have been doing regular dubbing in the past few years would come off better simply because they have more experience with anime. Concerning Sailor Moon I wish I had bought the dub versions of season 1 and 2 as well. I prefer the subbed version (which I bought) but I do miss those English voices at times.
V me |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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But, I believe you that things are left out/mistranslated/"de-culturized" at times in English dubs, and in R1 DVD subtitles as well. As for translators being native Japanese or English speakers, I think most companies have subtitle script writers that edit and adapt the translation to flow better in English, just like the ADR script writer adapts it for spoken English. It would be nice if dubs were more faithful, but I think it's market conditions and not translation failures that cause the problems. The companies probably believe that dub fans aren't ready for fansub-style translation (honorifics and titles left in Japanese, such as senpai/sensei/oniisan/etc.), so they focus on making the English natural and accessible. And honestly, most dub fans aren't the obsessive type (like me) and don't watch dubs with subtitles on to "catch" differences. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber
Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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This topic (or something being derailed and turning into it) comes up at least once a month:
March, February, January, December, November, October, September... September is rather amusing since, if you read my edit, the whole reason the arguement started was actually completely pointless. My opinion about this can be read on other threads I linked to, but generally I like subs better then dubs. |
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Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
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I don't know what kind of Koreans you met (frankly put, fob or twinkie) but indeed, the two countries are extremely different from geography to culture. However, you're severly mistaken if you think Koreans have not influenced as much as the Chinese in creating the Japanese language. Pronounced different? Do you know the fact that both languages are syllable based, in which there are more syllables possible in Korean than in Japanese, and with the exception of the "z" pronounciation, the Korean language can exactly reproduce every Japanese syllable? I would not be exaggerating if I claimed that the easiest foreign language a Korean can learn is Japanese. My point was not that fansub translations are 100%/perfect. I don't know what in my writing makes you misunderstand this. I am comparing the quality of translation between fansub and dub and I am saying the quality of the fansubs are, most of the time, better. Did this imply that fansub translations are perfect in any way? Ah! A reasonable point to mention mouth flaps. But are you saying this knowing the fact that some dubs do not replicate the dub subtitles? I'm guessing this is due to different companies doing the subtitles and scripting/voice acting. But if the voices aren't going to replicate the subtitles, why not make the subtitles better? I never asked why fansubbers didn't get paid, where did you get that?
This is the first and probably the only time I'll ever seriously get into a dub vs sub. And while I'm at it, I intend to be as objective as I can get. Because I really don't care about other's preferences. ^_^ |
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Azathrael
Posts: 745 |
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Yes, the market conditions indeed could cause problems and influence the translation of dub subtitles by making them more English-oriented. But like I said, my argument is not about cultural differences (honorifics) or anything of that sort. I'm talking about extreme cases where I saw, for example, dub subtitles translate a phrase that merely implied something and put in text as if it were already done, as if out of laziness, or cases where entire phrases were left untranslated because it was deemed unimportant. I guess some examples are in order... But I'm using my laptop right now. T.T I've also seen cases where either a narration or important text is not subtitled because the subtitles only show one of either at a time. Meaning that some parts were not subtitled at all. Oh, how about names of shop stores or other significant signs written in Japanese? I've rarely seen those translated in dubs either. This is more off topic but I'm curious to know: Has anyone seen the dub for Genshiken? I wonder if the dubs try to clarify any of the uncommon words used in that series. If it weren't for a certain fansub's dedication to explain every single anime/otaku-like reference in that series, I would've dismissed it as a boring Comic Party 2nd season look-a-like. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber
Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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There's an insert commentary that clarifies some of the stuff in Genshiken (mainly specific references to anime/video game series and not really the cultural references as much). There wasn't one for the third volume though for some reason. The dub itself doesn't really explain that much. For me, it wasn't really needed that much though since I was able to understand and/or knew most of the references in the series. I've been to Akiba and conventions in Japan and I think Genshiken does a superb job at realistically representing the otaku life style in Japan, better then Comic Party. Only thing it leaves out is the internet, but hopefully the second season will be able to make up for that. |
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Alex K.
Posts: 247 |
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See, now that's just your biased opinion.
The reason the subs and dubs are different because of the translations. For example, a character might say, "What the hell is that?" In the Japanese version, it's fine, but in the dub, some words have to be added to make sure the dialogue doesn't end before or after the shot changes. In the end, "What the hell is that?" might be changed to, "What in the hell is that thing?" in the dub. And FYI, the English subtitles on R1 DVDs follow the Japanese script, not the English one, unless they're dubtitles, the subtitles that DO follow the English script. However, these are very rare. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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A) True, especially on some Media-Blasters discs where the disc authoring is lazy and uses .srt subtitle formats B) Depends on the series and the company; ADV and Rightstuf tend to translate more signs (i.e. Super Gals, His & Her Circumstances), while other do it on an "as needed" basis--I've seen that signs often aren't translated if the characters say what's on them, like in My-Hime, episode 4 where we see a Curry Bread package (untranslated), and a few moments later, a guy talks about his Curry Bread being stolen. Either they're lazy, or they think a sign translation is redundant. Then again, some fansubs cheat the fans as well, like with Kanon spoiler[where one fansub group didn't translate the hospital room sign that said "Tsukimiya Ayu" in the last episode (which is an important plot point because the sign reveals that Ayu is still alive), and instead put a note saying, "The Staff feel that you'll enjoy this episode more if you don't know what this sign means."] C) Okay, this may make me sound bad, but I have no intention of buying the DVDs for Genshiken, because I can't find any evidence in the packaging or reviews that MB makes any effort to explain the references and otaku-isms. Sorry, but for a fandom-intensive / parody / satire series like Genshiken, extra notes should be mandatory. Whatever one's feelings are about the content of Comic Party, Rightstuf's presentation of it is one of the most thorough and detailed R1 releases that I've ever seen. If Genshiken had had a Comic Party-like treatment, I would have gladly bought the DVDs, but as it stands, I'm sticking to the fansubs. |
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Tony K.
Subscriber
Moderator Posts: 11352 Location: Frisco, TX |
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This thread is actually pretty tame for now. No one is really debating, and more so just stating their opinions or discussing the elements of dubbing/subbing.
It's been over a month since the last one, so I'll allow this for now. However, if I see any post that turns this into a debate/flame war, I will lock it immediately. For those of you who are sick of this topic, I apologize, so please ignore it if you are bothered. |
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jaybug39
Posts: 552 Location: Oregon, Is it FOOTBALL yet? |
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I started doing subs, just for something different. And I am able to appreciate the diffeerence. So mostly I am going to be doing the reading from now on.
However I tried that with GITS 2nd Gig, and it was hopeless. There was just too much dialog and too much going on visually for me to be able to keep up with it all. So I went to the dubbed version. And I actually like the dubbed Aramaki's voice better. It seems to fit his face more to me. And the other english speaking voices seem to work very well with their faces. And I do think this show is the exception to the rule. |
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Fui
Posts: 339 |
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I prefer subs. Except there is one exception to this: Fullmetal Alchemist. I'm JP so that might be why I prefer the sound of most anime it in its "original" context, but I found Edward's voice in Japanese to be somewhat annoying. It's like he's trying to sound too cool. Actually the voice is rather similar to Hitsugaya-tacho's (in Bleach), but Hitsugaya is less annoying. I don't know if it's whether the JP dub is bad (well everyone is fine except Ed) or the NA dub is good, but in any case, the NA version is easier on the ears for me. So I'm not sure if I don't like the fact that it's dubbed or I just don't like the voice actors.
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The Frankman
Posts: 1160 Location: Binary Culture HQ |
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Speaking slighty OT for a second:
I rather liked the October, December, and March arguments (not because I did some of my best arguing ) because you saw some of the staunchest figures from both sides (some picked none) - Keonyn, Ohoni, Starwind Amada, Steroid, Azathrael, DemonEyesLeo, Zalis116, PantsGoblin, and a few mods just going AT IT. I had some memorable shots, but they were just firing roundhouses back and forth to the point I contemplated setting up some mass interview for my site just to get their mass opinions in an article. Great stuff. |
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