Forum - View topicRobotech
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Keroude
Posts: 12 |
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Alright, I'm a bit confused on the entire Robotech franchise and I thought maybe someone knowledgable about the subject could help me...
It says on the Encyclopedia that Robotech is made up of three unrelated animes, and it was done in the US...then how is it an anime??? Made up of 3 animes...wouldn't that be plagirism? o_o I see from "Related Anime" that it has a thousand other animes connected to it somehow. Can someone please clarify this all for me? I watched the Zentraedi saga (Macross), Robotech Masters saga (Southern Cross) years ago on Toonami. I know from playing the RP game that theres still Invid Invasion and the Sentinels. I see from the encyclopedia that they did Invid Invasion but only did 3 episodes of the Sentinels...did they end the series with those 3 episodes/movie? (Did it have a real ending is what I mean) Or did it just end with no real ending? And also....is there another anime that goes in depth about the Sentinels? Because I'm about to buy the Complete Robotech Protoculture Collection Boxset...and I would love to finish the entire series. Also any other Robotech imput, or recommendations of the other Robotech related anime would be appreciated or any clarification of the other animes would also be nice. Thank you very much in advance! ~Keroude~ |
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PantsGoblin
 SubscriberEncyclopedia Editor  Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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I don't really think it should be in the anime section either, but there are so many Robotech fanboys, I don't think it could have been prevented (to Robotech fans: I'm not saying that Robotech is bad, I'm just saying that I don't think it should be an anime). The definition of an anime is animation made in Japan, although a lot of the animation from Robotech was from Japan, I consider it American made since they altered the story. Says it right in the plot summary: "Made in America". Even the fact that it is made from "Macross", "Southern Cross", and "Mospeada", which are all anime, it has officially been licensed as "Robotech" which is American made.
Last edited by PantsGoblin on Fri Nov 25, 2005 6:04 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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Efan
 Posts: 340 |
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I always thought that Robotech was origionaly made in Japan as Macross, but when they brought it over to America they changed the name to Robotech.
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Steventheeunuch
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It's a bit subjective to who you ask. The best answer to "is it really an Anime?" is "who cares?".
Robotech was originally the 1982 (or 3?) series Super Dimensional Fortress Macross series, which is pretty famous. However, in order to get it onto TV, Harmony gold needed atleast 65 episodes of broadcast material, but macross only had 36. So they went back to their licensors, and picked up two other series, "Southern Cross" and "Mosepedea", which become the next two arcs of robotech, Masters and New Generation. It is not a ripoff or plagurism, rather it is a reimagining and reworking of pre-existing works into something that is both new and old. There was a Robotech movie worked on for a while, which was using parts of the First Megazone 23 OVA, Southern Cross/Masters footage, and new Animation for the ending. This movie died just after production and is only available on one, somewhat harder to find VHS tape run in the UK. It's generally not worth seeing  .
In order to keep the franchise going after the 85 episodes or so, Harmony Gold began work on Robotech: Sentinals, which died after 3 or so episodes due to a lack of interest and the economy going belly-up and some such. It was set just after the Macross saga, and showed Rick and co.'s adventures through space before they arrive back at Earth at the end of New Genetation. That was, for intents and purposes, the end of the Robotech franchise, as far as animated-programming was concerned. There is a new animated film being done by Madhouse and Dr. Movie, under direction from Harmony Gold, called Shadow Chronicles, which is due out sometime whenever. The date keeps changing. It might be marketted in Japan as a sequal to Mosepedea. You will get an ending for the TV series, but it won't be the ending for everything. |
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Efan
Posts: 340 |
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So... what your saying is that some of Robotech was made in Japan, and some of it was made in America?
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Robotech is made in America. They just used Japanese animation to make it.
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remember love
 Posts: 764 Location: Germany |
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Story wasn't change too much... Really I only concider it to be dialog and name change(I think only southern cross could be said to have significant story plot change but I still wouldn't say it's completely off bases). I personally found it be a unique way of using anime... I wouldn't want it done again as it wouldn't be unique anymore if it was done again.
They may of took three different shows(the 2 of them other than macross IIRC weren't doing well in Japan at all) and placed them together but that doesn't make it any less an anime. And yes it was technically "made in america" but it's still an anime as the animation is from Japan. Sentinels was never completed... I believe it was due to lack of demand. But you can get the 2 or 3 episodes in the extras of the protoculture edition. And they are also working on a new robotech: series called shadow chronocles and thats due whenever. |
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Gauss
 Posts: 519 Location: Finland |
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Basically Harmony Gold took three unrelated anime shows, then dubbed and edited them. The first of the three shows was Macross and the editing was relatively light for it. The big edits came in the next two shows because they had to come up with some kind of continuity with the Macross episodes.
So you could say that the Macross arc it's basically the same as the original Japanese anime. The two other shows also use the original animation (with some cutting and pasting) but the script has been changed considerably. Overall it's perhaps 4/5 Japanese and 1/5 American. |
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Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
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The reason The Sentinels never got finished is because, to my understanding, at the time there was a big shift in the value of the dollar against the yen. The animation, I believe, was being done by a Japanense studio, and as such, Harmony Gold could no longer afford to pay them to do it. Robotech was a pretty big hit, so I think there was enough interest. I mean, here we are almost 20 years later, and there's still enough interest to warrant the making of the Shadow Chronicles. When the show went belly up however, they did continue the story through novelization. I'm sure they can be found if you hunt for them. It basically connects the departure of Rick and Lisa back to the ending of the Invid Invasion.
As for the edits and changes in the dub-- yeah, they're around. Some things are simple, like cutting out the Minmay shower scene in Macross, some are for the story, like erasing the second moon in the sky of the Southern Cross (the original show, I think.... is actualy on another planet). To me, Robotech is anime. Vampire Hunter D is anime, and I think it was partly made in the US. Besides which, there are shows like Milk Chan, or the recent ghost story show (can't remember the name) that is almost completely reworked in the American dub. I don't think anyone's quibbling over whether or not those shows are anime, even though they're very different from the original release. In the end though, Robotech follows the stories of the original shows remarkably well. It's more the overarching concept of how the Invid Flower of Life is tied to Protoculture that is the new concept. The creation of the Robotech Masters and their relationship to the Zentraedi is also new. Same goes for the relationship between the Robotech Masters and the Invid. That's the new stuff, in general. |
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Starwind Amada
Posts: 981 Location: Easton, PA, USA |
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Robotech is like the 4Kids version of One Piece, except with violence, death, smoking, alchohol, relationships, SLOW SCENES, and MOST of the story left intact. Oh, and somewhat decent voice actors (hey, it was an 80s dub).
Ghost Stories? 
And Milk-Chan had 2 dubs: a faithful-to-the-Japanese one that was boring and contained cultural jokes that went over most Americans' heads, and an Americanized dub that had strong cursing and outdated Marc McGuire and Sammy Sosa jokes. |
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GospelX
Posts: 185 Location: Ann Arbor, MI |
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Without question, Robotech is anime. Doesn't matter that alterations were made. The way it's tossed around these days, "anime" just seems more like an elitist classification to sound cool than an admittance to what it really is -- animation, a cartoon. The most important question is whether or not you enjoyed it. Did you? Hope you did. It was one of the shows responsible for the popularity of Japanese animation in America today.
There is no other animated series continuing the Robotech saga...yet. I believe next year we'll be seeing the release of the new Robotech television series, The Shadow Chronicles. Or it might just be an OVA. Something like that. Otherwise, your best bet is to track down the novels released. They were really good, but the authors took some liberties with the story. I liked what they did, but it's not universally accepted among Robotech fandom. Also, PantsGoblin, with the way you're looking at it, you should believe that any series altered in any way since coming to America should not be classified as anime. There are a number of series that have incurred minor and major edits, changing plots and whatnot. In your view, what is it that makes an anime? |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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Hmm, I knew all of the Robotech fanboys would disagree with me. But the difference between Robotech and other anime series that were altered is that none of them combined various anime and threw them all into one and gave them a completely different name. "Robotech" is licensed under the name "Robotech" not "Macross" or anything else. "Robotech" is American made and was created by throwing together three completely unrelated shows. It's kind of hard to explain but I consider "Robotech" to just be the result of puting them together, despite if what it was made of was anime. And the people who put them together and licensed the whole thing were Americans. That's why I don't consider "Robotech" to be an anime, I consider it to be just something that was a product made by Americans that used anime. Also, you don't need to know my opinion on whether I liked Robotech or not, that's unrelated. But I'm so nice/evil I'll tell you anyway that I don't like it. But I don't like most action based shows so don't think I'm targeting it.
Oh, and GospelX you didn't actually give any reasons why Robotech should be an anime, you just said it was without question and told me that I should like it because "It was one of the shows responsible for the popularity of Japanese animation in America today.". Which I don't question because it was. That doesn't tell me anything about whether it's an anime or not though. I also don't appretiate you telling me what I "should" and "should not" like. |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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While I see PantsGoblin's point that "Robotech" as an overarching entity is more than the sum of its anime parts, I still fail to understand why any of this matters. Honestly, the definition of "anime" is rather nebulous as it is. I remember in a previous thread where the definition of anime was addressed that no one could agree if it's really "anime" if it was actually animated in South Korea, or if it counts as "anime" if it was animated in Japan, regardless of whether it was actually a Japanese production: for example, if an episode of the Simpsons was animated in Japan, would it be anime? The Simpsons is actually animated in Korea, but I'm just throwing it out there as an example because off the top of my head I can't come up with something more appropriate.
PantsGoblin, I think that because you disagree with GospelX's assertion that Robotech is anime, you're missing his more important point: that whether or not it's anime is largely immaterial. It is what it is. If it was indisputably anime, would that make you like it? If it was definitely not anime, would its current fans abandon it? This question of whether something is or isn't anime is really kind of stupid; its status as anime or not anime doesn't change the quality of the show itself. Thus, it's really rather pointless and a breathtaking waste of time to argue about it. Robotech's status is rather murky, and if you want my two cents, I don't fully consider it anime, but I don't fully consider it not-anime either. It seems to me like it's suspended in anime purgatory, like in the classification of anime vs. non-anime, it has a category all its own. But as to whether it belongs in the anime encyclopedia, I would have to say in that respect that it leans more toward being anime than otherwise. Its impact on anime fandom in the US can't be understated, and considering that it's made up of anime components with a story largely based on those original shows' (reworked, yes, but not completely changed), it seems the show warrants some mention in any supposedly "comprehensive" anime encyclopedia, regardless of whether you specifically consider it anime or not. |
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PantsGoblin
Subscriber Encyclopedia Editor Posts: 2969 Location: L.A. |
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You seem to be forgeting Keroude's quetion:
And that's the reason why I'm arguing it. In order to answer someone's question. It has to do with whether or not to place it in the Encyclopedia. Although there's no way they're gonna change it. So, I guess it is kind of a pointless arguement anyway. I'm just trying to tell him that I don't think it should be in the anime section either. |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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No, I also specifically addressed whether or not Robotech belongs in the encyclopedia; I didn't forget Keroude's "question, although it looks less like a question and more like an expression of confusion that you used as an opening to discuss why you don't think Robotech is anime. This thread then spiraled into a (pointless) argument about whether or not Robotech is anime, and both GospelX and myself have now tried to point out that this entire discussion is stupid. You responded to GospelX by continuing to argue against Robotech, so I merely pointed out that you were missing his point. In order not to have made a completely worthless "I'm going to be the mediator in an argument that doesn't need me" post, I also weighed in on it myself (much as GospelX did), but evidently you skipped that part of my post.
And in continuing to assert that Robotech has no place in the encyclopedia and resigning yourself to the stubborn "Well I guess it doesn't matter because I'm not going to get my way anyway," you still seem to be ignoring the point that GospelX and I are trying to make here: it doesn't matter. |
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