Forum - View topicCG or Cell?
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Kyle Smyth
 Posts: 157 Location: Ontario, Canda |
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Which animation type do you prefer; CG or cell animation?
What I actually mean by CG is not actually C Graphics but actually computer done animation. And by cell animation the old animation that involves painting cells and using color and lighting techniques. I personally prefer the old cell type of animation because not only did it need more talent but also the pictures can look more "real" than that of which computers are producing. For example the streets in the movie Akira were amazingly animated. They had all kinds of crap, dirt and vandalism that are actually seen in a major city. Unlike shows such as Full Metal Panic where everything is clean and perfectly symetrical. The studio Gonzo, though great, is notorious for clean streets. The movie Appleseed had amazing CG animation however it has a sort of "glazed" tone to the animation because everything seemed to be equal and clean. However movies such as Ghost in the Shell (first one) had a "non-glazed" feel to it because of the nitty gritty crap that covered the setting. Anyways what type of animation do you prefer and why do you prefer it? |
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remember love
 Posts: 764 Location: Germany |
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I prefer the cell animation. Because I believe it takes more talent to do such work.To me cg graphics is well good for certain anime is just too easy compared to that of cell animation.
But I do like it when they mix the two properly. Because then it gives it a nice average tone to it. It looks clean but in other areas it can have that same messed up feel to it. But choicing from either or.... diffenetly cell animation. It gives a certain feel of accomplishment that you got to see such good talented work I think when watching it. Like, If I were to see the animation director I would probably go up to him and say good job and give him a full explanation as to why I like it. While as a cg graphics director I'd probably say keep up the work and leave it at that. And don't get me wrong I know CG takes alot of work too.. just I believe not as greatly as cell animation. |
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Aromatic Grass
 Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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I like CG when it's done well. When it's noticable, that's what bothers me. GONZO is the master of CG. I think Production I.G does an excellent job with CG animation (GitS:SAC, IGPX). I know FLCL is by mainly GAINAX, but it's also worked on by Production I.G. Was there CG in that?
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Haru to Ashura
 Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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Hold up.
Are you referring to two-dimensional animation that's done using the computer, or three-dimensional animation?
Hardly. As far as Japanese CG goes, in terms of actual 3d animation, to this day only SquareEnix and Studio Ghibli can be considered to be masters of the art. But again, if you're referring to two-dimensional animation done with the aid of the computer, not 3d, I don't think that any of the television-quality production studios really stand above the rest. |
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LeoKnight25
 Posts: 319 Location: Puyallup, WA |
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I honestly prefer the cell animation to the computer generated cell looking animation that they use today. It takes a helluva lot more work and a lot more talent since it's all hand drawn. For some reason it just feels a lot more...I don't know....complete? Maybe I'm looking to say that it doesn't feel as cheap as a lot of the techniques used today. Like when the camera pans in something like Tekken or Sol Bianca: the Legacy or even Silent Mobius tv series versus say Genesis Survivor Gaiarth, Guyver or Akira or something like that...the camera pans slower and it doesn't look like the cheap animation that they used in a playstation game cutscene. Sure, techniques have definitely improved over the years in terms of the CG work but, it still feels digital most of it and there's just something about the digital work that I can't get over. Something that just makes it feel cheap and having less impact than traditional cell aniamtion. I think that may be the artist in me talking but, having something that took a lot of people a long time to do feels a lot more worth it and special than something that was produced in a couple months on a computer to me. Sure, it's still work and takes quite a bit of effort but, more effort is put into drawing all the cells, painting them, making sure they match up ok...little nuances in hand drawn animation that you can't tell in the newer digital works. To me, that's what it's all about.
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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Ok, the first post is really unclear. By "CG" are you referring to 3D animation or digitally colored 2D animation? If it's the former, I really have no preference, as I like animation that just looks nice, whether in 2D or 3D. I have to say, though, that I haven't seen very much 3D anime (outside the recent Advent Children) that has swept me off my feet. I generally think 2D anime (I'm just talking about Japan here) looks better.
If you are referring to digitally colored, computer assisted 2D animation, then I prefer the new method much more than the classic hand-painted cels that are shot on film. As an animator myself, it's actual movement and fluidity of the character (or whatever I'm animating) that matters the most, more than rendering technique. And, personally, digitally colored anime looks much cleaner and clearer than cel anime (in general, of course. I know there are exceptions.) As for the "taking longer" argument... well, I don't really see the advantage. I can watch something produced in two months with the same level of enjoyment as watching something produced in 5 years. The computer is a tool to assist animators and improve the quality of their work, just like 16mm cameras and paint. For years animators used paint on cels only because that was the easiest way to produce animation. There's no reason they should ignore the amazing aid of the computer, especially when it drastically cuts production time. The computer has also made it much easier for independent animators to produce their own work. Think about Makoto Shinkai and the success his computer got him. That all said, my VERY favorite form of animation is mixed media and stop motion. 
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Depends on how well it's done, both can look great or like garbage depending on how well it's done. I'd say I prefer the CG that looks like cel simply because it pulls it off just as well and gives them more diversity and range as far as what they can get on screen. Done right, however, any of them can look fantastic although I'd say I'm far more forgiving towards cel than I am towards CG.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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The annimation doesn't really matter to me, it's just icing in the cake. I'm more concerned with whether the storyline is entertaining or if the characters are interesting. Series that blend both techniques sucessfully seem best though rather than either by itself.
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remember love
Posts: 764 Location: Germany |
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I don't think anyones doubting that. And all anime is nice. But what were discussing is what we believe looks better. I mean sure computer makes things easier that's a given, they were made for that and it's good...but I still like the look of painting on the cells because I think it looks nicer in my perspective because I can take the time and say whaoo that must of took a lot of work. Same with Paintings in an art gallery it would be easier to do the mona lisa with a computer making all the appropriate textures but it won't have the same feel to it as the mona lisa done by the original methods. Do you understand where my perspective is coming from? |
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Kyle Smyth
Posts: 157 Location: Ontario, Canda |
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I am saying that CG is refering to animation done a computer. Whether it is 3D or 2D.
I have the same feeling well said. Also the combination of both CG and Cell can be just as good in my opinion as good Cell animation as seen in Akira. Ghost in the Shell 2: Innocence mixed both and the animation was amazing especially the part spoiler[when Batou was in the store buying dog food and he was ghost hacked and he shot the glass. When all the glass was falling and from his perspective when his sensors were running wierd]the animation gave a strong sense of accomplishment as well as some of the best imagery I have ever seen. |
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Aromatic Grass
Posts: 2424 Location: Raleigh, NC |
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I have to admit, I forgot all about Square (Advent Children!). Ghibli? You mean like in Howl's Moving Castle? I heard GONZO did the actual castle movement. My favorite studio is GONZO, and I really like the job they did on Last Exile--that's why I said they were the best. Of course, as you said, it depends on if it includes two-dimensional art or not. |
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Joe anime
 Posts: 259 Location: Brooklyn,NY |
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I prefer cell animation as my type.with cell,the colors stand out more and sometimes the movment of a character can be lifelike.
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Haru to Ashura
Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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Well, sort of. Mistunori Kataama headed the digital animation, as he did with Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. Only one guy from Gonzo worked on the movie, it was mainly ghibli's staff, and some other studio called T2. Honestly, Gonzo's a pretty good studio, but as far as 3d animation goes, I think you've thinking too highly of them. Then again, I might be thinking too highly of Ghibli. lol. Overall, as far as 3d goes, Japan is still falling behind America, excluding SquareEnix. |
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LeoKnight25
Posts: 319 Location: Puyallup, WA |
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I have to say, that about sums up my feelings as an artist. Sure, it looks nice doing CG animation but, anything that takes more time and effort means more than something done as nicely but, with half the effort and none of the meaning. Like you said, re-producing the Mona Lisa perfectly on computer but, it only took you maybe a few days. Nowhere near the time and effort that it would have had you painted it by hand. None of the love is there. It's just hollow and that's what sums up the animation techniques nowadays. |
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Cloe
Moderator
Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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I'm afraid I have to respectfully disagree. Animation is a very, very tedious art form, and anyone who is willing to put the time and effort into a 26 episode series and get paid practically nilche has to have love for it. I'm an artist (illustration, comic art) as well, but I'm also an animator, and I'm sure you'll believe me when I say animation takes much, much, much longer to complete. A completely colored 25 second clip with sound can take four people up to five months to complete. And that's with the computer. Therefore, "with half the effort and none of the meaning" is a laughable concept to me. As I said before, animators only used paint on cels for 60+ years because that was the quickest, easiest way available to them to get the animation completed. It's not like today's animators suddenly don't care about the artistic desicions going into animation; it's just that the final rendering technique is a little different. All of the process, from concept to design to pre-production to animation production is exactly the same. The only difference now is that drawings are cleaned up and scanned, instead of being traced onto cels and painted. I would argue that mainstream, commercial animation (from both Japan and the United States) has only benefited from the aid of the computer. The final product is clean, crisp, and bright, which is the ideal picture quality the cel animators have been trying to achieve for decades. I believe nostalgia is all that makes the older technique more appealing to fans, and nothing else. That, and getting to collect the cels themselves.  I have to admit, I DO miss that.
Independent animation is a whole other ball park. The reason I often prefer it to both anime and other mainstream animation is the same reason you are citing for preferring cel animation. Much, much more artistic license goes into it, and you can see the care and love in every single frame. Think of Wendy Tilby with her fantastic "When the Day Breaks," where she altered and drew on top of video footage with charcoal and paint in every frame. Or Ferenc Rofusz's "The Fly," in which every frame is a beautiful charcoal drawing from the point of view of a fly. These are the artists who rejected the mainstream cels and paint, when they were still around, for being too limiting on their creativity. I guess the reason I brought that up was to make the point that what may seem artistic and time consuming to one person seems fast and trite to others. And vice versa. So it's not logical to accuse digitally colored animation of being effortless when it's not. If you personally like the look of cel animation, that's great; I have no problem. I take issue when the reasoning behind that preference is accusatory enough to blame modern animators of cutting corners, when mainstream animation (for the most part) has been about cutting corners and stretching budgets since the emergence of UPA in the 1940s. |
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