×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
NEWS: LA Times Looks at Mamoru Oshii and Hayao Miyazaki


Goto page 1, 2  Next

 Note: this is the discussion thread for this article
Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tony K.
Subscriber
Moderator


Joined: 18 Nov 2003
Posts: 11446
Location: Frisco, TX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:01 pm Reply with quote
Type-o:

Quote:
The LA Times is running an article called Anime: not just cartoon conflict dealing with the very different poitns of view...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4548
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Bruce Wallace wrote:
"And it won't change until he makes the movies he really wants to make: bloody works; lots of bloodshed." Oshii knows blood. When Quentin Tarantino needed a Japanese animator to create a 10-minute anime interlude for "Kill Bill Vol. 1," he turned to Oshii, who produced a gore-fest of butchered bodies.


Uhh... as far as I know, Mamoru Oshii had nothing whatsoever to do with the animation sequence in Kill Bill.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
cascade



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 8
Location: Houston Texas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:18 pm Reply with quote
Oshii all the way.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
ShellBullet



Joined: 20 Mar 2003
Posts: 1051
Location: I hit things, with my fist.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Along the way, Oshii indulges in his artistic fetish for sex and violence spiced with philosophical riffs on the dire state of mankind.


I'm racking my brain, is there any actual sex in any Oshii movies? They talk about sex and Kusanagi appears naked a few times, but really that's about it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime
Perfectsword



Joined: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 527
Location: Somewhere in NY
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:00 pm Reply with quote
I dont really know what to say. The article make the Creators / Directors look like enemys; which is kind of sad. I dont really know what they trying to get at; Family anime vs. Mature anime i guss. I think we need both. But the thing that made me a little pissed is:

"Look," Ishikawa continues. " 'Innocence' is even difficult for me to understand. But I trust Oshii's talent. And if you dilute it for an American audience, it wouldn't be cyberpunk anymore."

What the hell? Steryotyping B*stard...Other than that i guss it was just simply a bestile argument. No point to it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Gamelore



Joined: 07 Apr 2004
Posts: 76
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
With Oshii in tow, Production IG head Mitsuhisa Ishikawa made the rounds at Warner, Fox and finally DreamWorks. "Nobody could understand it," Ishikawa says, recalling the story pitches.

At DreamWorks, Jeffrey Katzenberg didn't like the script either. But he liked the look of a two-minute trailer Oshii had put together and offered to provide a screenwriter while "taking Oshii's suggestions on board," says Ishikawa.

"That was an important moment," the producer says. "They were telling us: 'We know what sells in the U.S.' And I was torn. Should I take Oshii's side? Or take the money?" In the end, Oshii's script remained, and Katzenberg made a deal to distribute the film.


Clearly Dreamworks "know[s] what sells in the U.S." by their choice of over-the-top cover art, and lack of proper subtitles. Somehow this idiocy played out exactly how I imagined it would have, except for the whole thing about, oh, WANTING TO REWRITE THE SCRIPT.

I'm sure the 2 minute clip was a bunch of action scenes, too, which obviously are all that dimwit cared about. I so love the MPAA distributing anime...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message ICQ Number My Anime My Manga
Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Gamelore wrote:

Clearly Dreamworks "know[s] what sells in the U.S." by their choice of over-the-top cover art, and lack of proper subtitles.


I can't say anything about the cover, because it doesn't compare to the Japanese one, but the subtitles were a production error that has been corrected. Such things happen to every company at some point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address MSN Messenger My Anime
Aaron White
Old Regular


Joined: 23 Aug 2002
Posts: 1365
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Someone on another messageboard posted a link to some art by a painter who's apparently an influence on the look of the new GitS movie, and I could see the resemblance; it was eroticized, fetishized pictures of female maniquins that looked not unlike Katsuragi. I've lost the link, but it was probably innappropriate for this forum anyway...

There's an interview with Oshii in an old book of Animerica interviews in which he criticizes Miyazaki for not making sophisticated adult films, by which I assume he means police procedurals with giant robots.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime
Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10461
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Tenchi wrote:
Uhh... as far as I know, Mamoru Oshii had nothing whatsoever to do with the animation sequence in Kill Bill.


I noticed that too. Its dissapointing that sucha potentially good article is poorly researched. It also suggests that I.G is Oshii's studio, whci is very far from the truth. Oshii is given carte blanche at I.G, but he's not an owner or director of the company.

Perfectsword wrote:
The article make the Creators / Directors look like enemys; which is kind of sad. I don't really know what they trying to get at.


I think they're trying to show two very different aspects of anime. From reading it, I think people might get the impression that Oshii and Miyazaki are enemies, which is very far from the truth. They're actually friends (not best buddy's or anything, but friendly).

Quote:
"Look," Ishikawa continues. " 'Innocence' is even difficult for me to understand. But I trust Oshii's talent. And if you dilute it for an American audience, it wouldn't be cyberpunk anymore."

What the hell? Steryotyping B*stard...Other than that i guss it was just simply a bestile argument. No point to it.


Just before, it the article stated that Dreamworks wanted to write the script because they knew what would work in America. In otherwords, they wanted to "dilute it for American audiences."

It was Ishikawa that believed it could succeeed in America without being diluted. Which is why he refused to let Dreamworks dilute it.

Gamelore wrote:
and lack of proper subtitles.
The subtitles were a mistake (well, it is up for debate, but I believe the people who said it was a mistake, and not the people that tried to cover it up by saying it was done on purpose). The DVD was re-issued with proper subtitles.

-t
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail My Anime My Manga
UltimaShadowfax



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 288
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:27 pm Reply with quote
If that article got its facts incorrect, couldn't someone do something about it legally?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address My Anime My Manga
Tenchi



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 4548
Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer.
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:31 pm Reply with quote
I don't think any of the errors are potentially libellous. If someone points out the errors to them, the L.A. Times will just print a little item about it in their "corrections" section followed by the standard "The Times regrets any inconvenience these errors may have caused." disclaimer or whatnot.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website My Anime My Manga
jfrog



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 925
Location: Seattle
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:39 pm Reply with quote
I'm not sure I would've minded so much. Scriptwriting is clearly not one of Oshii's strong points, they're usually really overcomplicated and overpretentious - just compare Innocence to Patlabor II to see the difference. Anyone know what happened to Kazunori Ito? I mean, I like the way Oshii's visual style has been developing and all, but he needs another Ito script to work with like a fanboy needs a parent's basement.

Anyways, I think it's really great that this article got published, it's so rare to see English-language anime criticism. Wish they would've gotten Takahata in there, I've only read like one or two interviews with him and they were both really fascinating. Especially when he rips into Spirited Away.

Aaron White wrote:
Someone on another messageboard posted a link to some art by a painter who's apparently an influence on the look of the new GitS movie, and I could see the resemblance; it was eroticized, fetishized pictures of female maniquins that looked not unlike Katsuragi. I've lost the link, but it was probably innappropriate for this forum anyway...


The artist is Hans Bellmer, and I'm personally a big fan of his doll sculptures. Then again, I'll like pretty much anything involving really deformed human bodies. Even briefly liked Saikano for that reason, before I realized that it sucked.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address
Neilworms



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 155
Location: Chicago IL
PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:51 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I don't really know what to say. The article make the Creators / Directors look like enemys; which is kind of sad. I don't really know what they trying to get at;


Miyazaki and Oshii aren't enemies, its more of a stylistic battle, they both respect each others work, but feel that each other person needs to improve their respective styles. You can read more about the relationship between Oshii and Miyazaki at these articles from nausicaa.net here and here.

Also as for how the article was researched, I'd say they did a really good job. I mean this kind of information is stuff most amereican otaku don't really know about nor really care to look up. Desipte the fact that there was a glaring error about Oshii's involvement in Kill Bill, more articles of this calabre should be published in English... I mean Miyazaki and Oshii were treated like artists from opposing schools of thought, not just as craftsmen who make cute stuff for kids or kids who can't grow up. :P
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ZeroZero



Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:11 am Reply with quote
It sounds harsh, but in the article Oshii comes off like one big prentensious blowhard compared to Miyazaki.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Akito-san



Joined: 04 Jul 2004
Posts: 4
Location: At the computer...
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:28 am Reply with quote
Quote:
"But Miyazaki is hiding. He has a passion to destroy Japan, but he's not making what he really wants to make."


that's hilarious

who the hell says stuff like that? honestly...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group