Forum - View topicINTEREST: World Copyright Watchdog Publishes Piece on Manga Piracy
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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They've also made a lot of works based off of copyrighted material, whose author's they've paid royalties to and licenses, such as Winnie the Pooh, Peter Pan [which only just went into public domain], Mary Poppins, Tarzan, Wizard of Oz [which wasn't in the pd when they attempted to make a sequel in the 50's/60's], Black Cauldron, Witch Mountain, Freaky Friday, The Parent Trap, The Sword in the Stone [PD characters, but based on an E.B. White book about them], and so on. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Because it's not your creation. It's ours. When you realize this, you'll then begin to realize everyone profits off your creation. You chose to give up your rights in exchange for pittance. I've no problem if an artist can reap millions within the original 14 years copyright allowed but I have a big problem when they support laws which give their publishers rights to sue everyone else over similar ideas just to get that pittance for the next 225 years. It's now understood why you find yourself in circular arguments. You conflate rights (given up by the artist) with business. Here's a question for you, if you truly believe this: if you're a mangaka, and you rely on that pittance to earn a living from the publisher, why the hell aren't you yelling at them to create the "mangaonestop" site instead of those who say "No! No! NO!" to your works and aren't buying it? This is what I call the Artist's Entitlement and it's the second most difficult mindset to change right after those who believe putting up a button for direct payment is nothing but charity. I feel no remorse to those who can't make money when the opportunity to reach billions of people is hindered by their publisher, but worse, their own attitude. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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I get really sick of your ridiculous dogma about this, PJ.
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TheAncientOne
 Posts: 1882 Location: USA (mid-south) |
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Absolutely none of which invalidates my point. Disney has profited from works based on material that has entered the public domain, but continually pushes for copyright extensions to prevent their own material from doing the same. On a different copyright topic, I find it interesting that a short article in a blog that perhaps took 15 minutes to write, a well researched news article in a magazine that was created in the span of a week or so, and a $150 million dollar Hollywood film all get the same length of copyright term. |
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Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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This isn't just dogmatic ~ it's absurd, and borderline frightening as a point of view. Your word is my word, your art is my art, your private journal is my private journal; it rejects the notion that personal creations are also personal property. It's Orwellian in nature and disturbing to imagine. The original intent of copyright wasn't just to protect the revenue streams of authors and artists ~ it was also a social encouragement for artists to make their personal works available to the public, an incentive for taking the time and effort to produce culturally valuable creations. Taking away that incentive in deference to strictly collectivist IP doctrines not only dilutes an author's ability to profit from their own efforts, but in many respects promotes a lifestyle of street performers and public television, where authors and artists perform free services in the hopes of charitable contributions. But that collectivist point of view is wholly unnecessary, because artists and authors are already free to release their works into the public domain if they want to. Certainly the preponderance of free webcomic, blog and art websites suggests that authors and artists are in no way being prevented from making their works available to the world for free. Unfortunately, the extent to which these artists can make a living off this approach has been lukewarm at best ~ even after two decades of the commercialized Internet, there are still only a few dozen webcomic artists that have succeeded under a free-to-read model (and even then, they still enforce and maintain their copyrights). Regardless, we should respect the desires of creative individuals to determine how and under what circumstances they make their personal works available to the public. They are entitled to this respect as much as any person is entitled to the privacy of their personal property. The notion that we should force artists, authors and an entire industry to adopt new economic/IP models under the threat of piracy is not only disrespectful, but damaging to the public trust everyone is afforded through copyright law.
I did want to mention on this somewhat odd point, that in the past few months I've purchased DVDs for series well over 5 years old, including Phantom Quest Corp., Escaflowne, Dagger of Kamui, Vampire Princess Miyu, You're Under Arrest OVA, Riding Bean, Moldiver, Bubblegum Crisis, All Purpose Cultural Cat Girl Nuku Nuku, Burn Up, Ghost in the Shell, Paprika, Sukeban Deka, Cyber City and Golden Boy, to name a few. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I was speaking of Hollywood movies (which is why I said movies) not anime (which DOES have more of a collector mentality), but you're still an exception rather than the "rule" or else CPM, Pioneer and ADV would still all be in business under those names. Heck, I'm honestly impressed if all of those titles are still directly in print rather than just being available from left-over copies. Heck, considering how bad some of those titles are, I question WHY you want to buy them. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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CPM, Geneon and ADV went out of business due to the combination of incompetency and the massive drop in anime sales. Section 23 (the successor to ADV) has been much better run and seems to be doing well.
There are several anime I would buy if it was still in print or at least at an affordable price. |
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Sheleigha
 Posts: 1673 |
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Funny, because apparently ALOT of people like buying older titles (as well as newer) when it comes out on blu ray. Have you ever seen the top 10 charts on bluray.com? This week contains The Lion King (which also made ALOT of money in theatres as a 3D re-release, of course, I have a feeling it was the movie itself and NOT the 3D gimmick that brought crowds in) and Pulp Fiction. Both movies which came out in the early/mid 90s if anything. Oh, and Star Wars is up there too of course. The Jurassic Park trilogy comes out soon too, which will no doubt be in the top 10 as well. My point? Sure, there are blu ray collectors, but there ARE lots of people willing to double, triple dip to get these movies on a new format. Or perhaps they never owned it at all and just bought a blu ray player. Movies like Lion King and Star Wars will always have new fans from new generations come to know them. So, yes, even Hollywood movies still sell older movies, classics, ones people have seen a million times, over and over and over again... |
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Kikaioh
Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
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Some of the anime titles I mentioned are movies (Ghost in the Shell, Dagger of Kamui, Paprika, Riding Bean). Don't you think it makes more sense to talk about anime DVDs, considering the topic of discussion and the forums we're in? But I won't press the subject (...largely because I was planning to start a Jackie Chan DVD collection, so the point's still the same). I like waiting a few years for the retail price to drop so that it's cheaper to get the DVDs I'm interested in. If you don't know anyone who buys older DVDs, maybe your circle of friends is small, or limited to teens that can't afford DVDs in the first place (or maybe most of your friends are just pirates too, that would make sense). Just go to Wal-Mart or Best Buy and see how many classic and blockbuster movie DVDs from over 5 years ago you can find, I'm sure you'll see Lord of the Rings, The Godfather, Spider Man, Indiana Jones etc. without looking too hard. Somebody must be buying them if they keep showing up on the shelves. 
Most of the anime titles I mentioned are still in print, a quarter of them I bought direct from Animeigo's site (though Your Under Arrest's license expires in January, so get it while you can  ).
I'm not into the moe/j-rock/loli/teen dramedy that's saturating the market nowadays. If you like ogling high school girl panty-shots or blasé emo bishonen, well, there's no accounting for taste, am I right?  Now I ain't doggin' all the shows coming out these days, I just prefer anime that kicks ass with an old-school flavor I can take seriously. Considering the list I mentioned includes classics like Ghost in the Shell, Escaflowne, Paprika, and Riding Bean, I question why you wouldn't want to buy them (I'm just messin' with you, it's a matter of preference really  ).
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BassKuroi
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I feel sick of these statements far beyond words can describe.
It's frightening for you just because you can't see beyond your egotism. Life, culture, are collective experience based on communication. If you put barriers in that experience, you are impending the free flux of ideas and putting culture itself in jeopardy. Orwell was a socialist, I seriously doubt he would agree with you in this matter. If The Damned would had sued Killing Joke for the bass riff in "Life Goes On", we all would have lost not only one song, but two in the process, because Nirvana's "Smell Like Teen Spirit" is based on that riff too, via Killing Joke's song "Eighties". |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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That's Come as you are not Smell Like Teen Spirit
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_as_You_Are_(Nirvana_song) The problem is that if you are just copying something than you're not actually creating anything new. Even worse is that if you just pirate everything than the guy making it can't create anymore. We see that effect in anime, where we see a ton of repetition, just looking at the Winter 2012 anime season, and only one anime (Brave 10) actually stands out because the vast majority all star cute girls. Another example was the PSP which was so heavily pirated that games that should have sold millions sold only a couple hundred thousand, compare Chains of Olympus (2 million+) to the later Ghost of Sparta (less than a million) same thing with Dissidia, the same game sold a fraction of the first due to heavy piracy. How many great works have we been deprived of because the creator couldn't make anymore because people pirated the product? |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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How many scientists, doctors and teachers do we lose because people want to make millions in entertainment? |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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The talent it takes to be a scientist, doctor or teacher are usually different from those being an entertainer. |
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BassKuroi
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Sorry, my bad.
You made a rhetorical question, but as that, it sounds pretty absurd to me. Please, tell me: How many? |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I think the wording is a bit imprecise. It's not "ours" but "nobodies." Information is information whether it's a collection of information or a single fact. One cannot own it.
The reason that you own the physical objects that you create is that you owned the scarce resources that made them up before you transformed them into what you made. You can't claim to own someone's paper because you happened to use their pen to write on it. You can't claim to own your employers computer simply because you've typed on the keyboard. "Intellectual property" is a misnomer because what intellectual property really is are a set of rules limiting peoples use of their property. I can't write or print words on paper that are "copyrighted" or I can't create a poster that has a companies logo. I can't use the design or pattern that was used to create a specific type of machine, even if I may have all the necessary parts and training to do it. Contrary to being "collectivist" these notions are entirely the opposite. It is IP that is "collectivist" because it imposes limitations upon everyone on how they may use their property for the benefit of some. Now you may believe that it's still perfectly valid, for all the standard reasons people believe in so called "public goods" problems, but it is a collectivist system. Ultimately, owning ideas mean that you own people as you are saying you have a right to limit their actions. http://www.cato-unbound.org/2008/11/19/roderick-long/owning-ideas-means-owning-people/ |
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