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Manga and American Comics

Sure, there's a few non cape books here and there, but they're honestly not all that much better. American comics are very stagnant and stuck in one type of genre and demographic.

You're not going to find an extremely popular and long running series like One Piece which is light-hearted and adventurous (or any other Shounen Jump title for that matter)

I never actively disliked American comics, I just always figured that they only centered around outdated, tired characters dressed in tights. Then I realized that American Comic fans must look at manga and see big headed, wide eyed tweens dressed in maid outfits looking too innocent for their own good.

The thing is they are dominated by superhero titles. Sure, there's a few non cape books here and there, but they're honestly not all that much better. American comics are very stagnant and stuck in one type of genre and demographic. You're not going to find an extremely popular and long running series like One Piece which is light-hearted and adventurous (or any other Shounen Jump title for that matter): Veritgo, Image, and other non superhero books tend to go for the grim and gritty things sort of like how most American live-action shows are about crime dramas and such.

The irony of course is that the fools spewing this nonsense are always the first ones to lose their shit should anyone suggest that manga is tired and stale because it's dominated by otaku titles. Cause of course, your hobby is totally the bastion of creativity unlike those other things you don't like which are exactly the negative stereotype people say they are. Well, whatever. There's no arguing with the wilfully ignorant.

The only one 'losing their crap' seems to be you (and Bonham, to a lesser extent, though he used dripping sarcasm rather than personal insults like you did)

But um... here's your chance to preach American comic's being creative.

Also try to keep it within the last year ot two, since Bonham had to resort to obscure self-published-out-of-the-author's-own-basement titles from 30 years ago to try to prove a point...

Though the top selling manga in both Japan and America are vastly varied in terms of themes and age level, so it'd be wrong to say the same thing about manga... no one genre dominates the industry like comics.

Here I was operating under the assumption that comics like Love and Rockets, The Frank Book, Alec and Cerebus were quite different than the men-in-tights stories that are DC's and Marvel's bread and butter. But I been persuaded! Thank you for nuanced arguments filled with many examples. You have enlightened me, and hopefully other American comic fans who stumble upon this thread!

Uh, do you dismiss something like Jeff Smith's Bone because of ignorance, or because it was "only" serialized for 14 years?

aaaand predictably, the first response is exactly the same kind of tired, self serving ignorance that you see spewed by anime/manga fans all too often.

The irony of course is that the fools spewing this nonsense are always the first ones to lose their shit should anyone suggest that manga is tired and stale because it's dominated by otaku titles. Cause of course, your hobby is totally the bastion of creativity unlike those other things you don't like which are exactly the negative stereotype people say they are. Rolling Eyes Well, whatever. There's no arguing with the wilfully ignorant.

Hense why I used the word 'few'. Superheroes aren't the ONLY thing, but they do make up 99% of the market.

Putting Bone on the same platform on One Piece doesn't work. It's like using Adventure Time to say the US makes adventure cartoons. The scale, quality, and purpose of each is vastly different.

Source on that percentage?

Shonen and shojo titles obviously dominate in Japan, but the reason why people stay with manga is because of the sheer of amount seinen and josei titles that obviously don't move as many units, but are certainly not short in abundance.

I'll also ask you the same question I asked above: what are some of the titles that you've read?

Brandishing "quality" around is really gonna detract from the discussion rather than add to it. Also, Bone can be used as long as you don't limit "popular" to the level of success you'd find with Harry Potter, Twilight, etc.

Some quick math just by browsing a listing of what the Top 100 comics each month are on IcV2.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/20795.html

The thing is saying shounen or shoujo dominates manga isn't like saying superhero does. Shounen and shoujo are demographics, while superhero is a genre.

If you mean non-superhero, then I browsed through 100 Bullets, Exterminators, Y The Last Man, Fables, and other Vertigo titles back in the day. Weren't really my cup of tea. Also used to read Walking Dead but got disinterested as it went on and after that lame plot twist they pulled.

I was thinking more One Piece and ilk are focused on the high octane action and drama with an epic-scale story, while Bone is more like a Disney movie it's execution. Action is one of the things I like about manga, it's more expanded upon and the powers seem to be used in a lot more creative and interesting ways that I never really saw in comics, which seem to lack the impact action manga does. Along with the way it's drawn and panel lay-out and all that stuff.

Superheroes are the primary force in the market, you can't deny this without presenting some serious market data analysis.

From what I've seen, most people misuse the word moeblob to describe things they don't like, so when they resort to vague buzzwords with no actual meaning, they don't have much of a point. "Superhero" is a specific and definable genre.

Say I wanted to read stuff like Sailor Moon and Tokyo Mew Mew.. what would you recommend?

Alright, but that doesn't really go against what I suggested earlier: superhero comics are what sells the most, but that doesn't mean they compromise nearly all of the titles produced.

Right, but even so superheroes are also largely defined by demographics. Also, despite how shounen does largely present different genres under it (while shoujo is less, with fantasy, drama and comedy? Just something to consider), shounen action series are still the most dominant successes in the market. So the type of superhero series you have may not have as much diversification, but there's still a parallel in terms of market dominance. Or, in less awkwardly worded way: One Piece and Gintama may not be the same, but OP is the type of shounen series--of the action/adventure variety--you'll find most often. Likewise, Spiderman will never be confused with Luther Arkwright, but you obviously see the former more compared to the latter (or even something more mainstream like Watchmen).

If you mean non-superhero, then I browsed through 100 Bullets, Exterminators, Y The Last Man, Fables, and other Vertigo titles back in the day. Weren't really my cup of tea. Also used to read Walking Dead but got disinterested as it went on and after that lame plot twist they pulled.

I don't deny this. I deny that "there's a few non cape books here and there, but they're honestly not all that much better. American comics are very stagnant and stuck in one type of genre and demographic".

There are vastly more than a "few" non superhero comics out there. The fact that you claim this is the case totally invalidates all your later claims about supposed stagnation. If you're only familiar with a few non superhero comics then you simply know next to nothing about American comics.

Okay. Define it. I hesitate to draw us off topic here since this really has little bearing on the topic at hand but specifically define "Superhero comic".

Can you actually name some comics about football? Card games? How about spinning tops? Some magical girl? Romance (bonus points for homosexual romance)?

Again, kind of hard to say that when you have that list there saying otherwise. And something to consider: even if there's a hundred thousand more non superhero books out there. if they're so unpopular and obscure to be on that list (like 100 self-printed copies sold a a convention), then you can't really say they're apart of the actual market, if you think about it.

It's like, where exactly are they then?

All very different from one another. You'd definitely see even more diversity if you expand it out to the top 100.

It'd be easy to just say Marvel/DC stuff, but other companies make them too (like Spawn and Hellboy or whatever) But in general it's usually comics that tend to take place in modern society (or a gimmicky other time, like when Marvel did those colonial versions of heroes) and deal with people who go around stopping crime in that city and stuff. They usually actually use the word 'superhero' and those other terms in-universe. A lot of times they wear costumes, though some don't if they're more 'street level'. Basically it's just a common writing style and handling of stories, heroes, and villains that you find prevalent in American media (villains tend be handled in a 'rogues gallery' kind of fashion), and not just comics.. a lot of action cartoons are handled that way, like Ben 10 and Danny Phantom. It's a huge cultural preference for America.