Forum - View topicGundam Seed Destiny
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Lone Wolf and Cub
 Posts: 301 Location: tumbleweed, South Dakota |
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Yes yes I know that there is already a thread for this somewhere, I just couldn't find it. However, I wanted to re-open the conversation and see what people think of it now after 9 eps.
I find the series to be a bit strange, especially with the pacing. It started off with fights galore, and then slowed WAY down. The development of Shinn's character has been strange, and it seems like Athrun is more of a main character than he is right now. I guess I don't really know what to think...I like the series I think, but at the same time find it weird. Jibril's intentions are weird, because I don't really understand his motivation behind wanting to spoiler[destroy zaft]. Kira kind of seems like he's stoned or something because he never talks at all. Lacus and him don't act like spoiler[they love each other] at all. The weirdest feeling is how evil the earth feels in this seed, and how Zaft seems to be the good guys. To sum up my rant, I guess what I'm asking is, where does everybody think this series is going? I'm not sure at all, but I just hope they start developing the crew of the Minerva soon, because I don't feel like I know any of them at all right now. ~LoneWolf |
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I dunno, personally I don't see much weird about it. spoiler[The combination of two separate terrorist attacks] really left little room for any downtime until episode seven, and for them to keep up with the constant action would mean cutting the character development we're finally getting deeply into (especially in terms of the new cast members). The average plot is a series of up & down "beats," and Destiny's just in the middle of those downparts at the moment. It'll pick back up, then cool down again after that, just like every Gundam (and action series in general) has done before it.
Seems to me like Athrun's being used as a means of easing the audience into the new conflict. Using a familar face that was slated to be a main character anyway, and having him play off of the other main characters helps to transition from the one cast to the new set. Plus, there really hasn't been much for Shinn to do, I'd say; he's just now able to get out and do something beyond sortying against the Girty Lue.
He's the leader of Blue Cosmos. The entire organisation sees Coordinators in general as abominations of humanity to be exterminated, so the PLANT government and its ZAFT militia would naturally be primo targets.
If Afterphase is any indication, spoiler[Kira seems to be suffering from post-traumatic stress, shell-shock, or whatever you prefer to call it. He still hadn't quite found the answers he was looking for at the end of SEED, and the atrocities he experienced firsthand in the last war probably still haunt him to this day. As for Lacus & Kira, there technically never was any solid confirmation that they were a romantic couple. They appreciated each other's company for sure, but whether or not they *loved* each other was never quite revealed.]
Eh, Zeta Gundam did roughly the same thing by having the Titans take hold of the Federation. spoiler[By the end of SEED, both ZAFT and the Alliance were revealed to have some pretty twisted leadership. However, while ZAFT's "evil" influence (Patrick Zala and his radical faction of the committee) was supposedly purged, Blue Cosmos still has the Alliance's (and specifically the Atlantic Federation's) ear. Although, based on Dullindal's behaviour as of late, I suspect ZAFT's whole nice-guy act is all a ruse.] As for my impressions of Destiny, I've been quite impressed so far. It's already accomplished more in nine episodes than it took SEED twice that time to do, and has quite commendably kept up the pace that SEED only reached in its second half. The animation is getting on my nerves (off-model, choppy, and the CG is still godawful), but the plot development (being much less blatantly derivative of UC Gundam makes it more intriguing, I guess) and characters (always was an Athrun fan, and many of the new characters show lots of potential) allow me to forgive its visual woes. Last edited by Nagisa on Mon Dec 13, 2004 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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The role reversal is really influenced by Zeta, where the extremists groups representing the Earth became the opposing force. Of course, like in the first SEED, the evils of both sides will likely be fully realized before the end.
I have to agree that, while Destiny is probably one of the best Gundam series in a long time. it just doesn't seem to want to focus on the new characters. Hopefully by the second quarter the fangirls from the first series will be satisfied with their favourite couples getting all of the attention and they can finally start giving Shinn and the Minerva gang some proper attention. |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Athrun is the Char of SEED and apparently Fukuda feels like giving him a little bit bigger role than Char had in Zeta, but remember that Char was still a pretty prominent character. The episode previews after episode nine showed Athrun and Shin in the same frame, so it seems like he's going to be joining up with Minerva again. At that point, Shin should probably start to move more toward center stage.
Um...he's the leader of Blue Cosmos. What's his motivation? Racism.
Kira seems to me to be very depressed about the state of things, which explains why he's so withdrawn. That could account for the attitude toward Lacus, or it could just be that, according to Fukuda, Kira was never really in love with Lacus or Flay (of course, the show itself seems to contradict that, but that's what Fukuda says, so take it as you will).
You mean like, exactly how it was in Zeta? Anyway, I wouldn't say Earth seems evil. Blue Cosmos is pretty bad, of course, but they were always like that. There might be more stuff later in the show to make Earth more evil, but right now it's just an alliance of nations that has come together to fight back against what they see as unprovoked aggression that threatens their existence.
Right now, it's starting to look like it'll follow the same path that SEED did, just a war between Alliance and ZAFT with some people who aren't sure which side is right caught in the middle. But so far, Destiny has been a lot better than SEED was, so I'll remain optimistic for now. It's certainly possible for them to move off in other directions, especially since the show has about 40 episodes left to go. It just seems to me like in the immediate future, it's setting itself up to be very similar to SEED. |
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Lone Wolf and Cub
Posts: 301 Location: tumbleweed, South Dakota |
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Wow thanks guys, that really clears up a lot of my confusion so far. I haven't seen Zeta yet, so of course I didn't see the relation between the two. I guess I should have figured out that Jibril was Blue Cosmos...I honestly feel pretty stupid for missing that ><.
As for Kira, the post-dramatic stress thing makes a lot of sense, and again I feel silly for not seeing that. Dullindal didn't seem evil to me, but maybe I was just mis-intrepriting his demeanor overall. I guess it probably sounds like I don't like this series, but that's not how I feel at all. I was just confused and now things are starting to make a lot more sense. From the looks of things Athrun will be joining Shinn and crew next ep, and Athrun will be getting a new prototype model I'm thinking. I'm interested to see what role the rest of the crew of the Minerva and the Girty Lue will play. Thanks all for your responses! ~LoneWolf |
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 960 |
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Well I like it so far. Except I don't really care for the new characters, probably in part because they haven't been developed. It seems like they're just there and we're supposed to instantly love them. I don't care cause I'd like more focus on the old cast i.e. Kira. Anyhow there's one thing that's bugging me, the spoiler[Lacus Mark II?]
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Sir_Brass
 Posts: 476 Location: Prescott, AZ |
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I don't think ZAFT necessarilly has any evil parts to it story-wise other than those terrorists who were killed in ep 7. I think that it'll be ORB that has the hidden 'evil' elements, since we've seen that they are leaning towards joining the Atlantic Federation.
As for Kira and Lacus, it's only one person saying that they're not in love and a whole lot of context clues saying that they ARE. Now, maybe kira doesn't fully realize it yet, but Lacus loves him at least, even if he doesn't yet. I'm just WAITING for Athrun to give Shinn a little beat down the next time Shinn mouths off about things he doesn't actually know about. |
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cardcaptor_100
Posts: 1 |
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who is that LACUS MARK II
The different is that the one in ORB is not using a star hair clip like the one that just appeared  DAMN confuse already
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duo
 Posts: 9 Location: Texas |
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stupid question, but... what station is airing Destiny? I know that CN is playing the first SEED right now (thank goodness for Tivo), but who's playing Destiny?
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kusanagi-sama
 Posts: 1723 Location: Wichita Falls, TX |
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Nobody's airing Destiny in the US, it isn't even licensed yet. However MBS (Mainichi Broadcasting System) is airing it on their station in Japan. |
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Kazuki-san
 Posts: 2251 Location: Houston, TX |
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Kusanagi beat me to it
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duo
Posts: 9 Location: Texas |
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well crap, that explains why I couldn't find any info on it. So how are some of you guys watching Destiny then?
I did figure out that MBS was airing it though, they've got a bunch of tv spots for the show online: http://mbs.jp/gundamseed-d/index2.html Good stuff, I can't understand a word of it though, haha! From the clips (one is nearly 3min long) it looks like Destiny has more of a Macross/Robotech flavor in terms of the visuals and action, than it does "Gundam", at least compared to Wing and what I've watched of Seed so far. |
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kainzero
 Posts: 309 |
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fsubs, but by the rules here we can't post links.
spoilers abound till ep 9, too lazy to use the tag. is jibril really blue cosmos? i just thought he was just some rich racist kid with a powerful arm in politics. but it seems like he has a greater motivation. i think he's planning to unite earth in an attack against plant, then once they succeed, he'll have enough military dominance to start his new world order... whatever that order is. if he makes himself look heroic by purging the "terrorists," then he will be granted more political power in general... shinn needs to get over his sister. jeez. guy's been whining and crying all the time and always yells at cagalli for no reason. i think he needs to see a counselor. that's quite unhealthy. if her sister understood that her cellphone won't work in outer space, then they would've all probably made it back to the ship. but nooo... they stopped to watch shinn pick it up. lacus mark 2 is interesting. i never thought of lacus has a solid character anyway. if anything, she was so idealistic in terms of peace that it was so... not right. so this could be a nice twist. or a horrible twist. or maybe lacus is a slut.  or maybe lacus loves everyone and is too ignorant to understand coupling or something. i don't know.
i don't understand kira and lacus (mark 1? i guess) either. well, they were on an island, and there were a lot of kids... as far as the whole "good guy/bad guy" thing, i view it as this: earth suffered a terrorist attack at the hands of radical coordinators. jibril's group (the atlantic federation?) has a ton of money. they scapegoat PLANT in exchange for aid towards rebuilding after the attack... and since earth was seriously messed up, they bought the scapegoating and fed them a lot of fake information. on the other hand, dullindal has been proliferating weapons. he believes military might is key to securing safety. where did that neutron thing come from? yea really. so i'm guessing it will lead to more pressure from jibril (since proliferation does that) and eventually Mutually Assured Destruction. imo, it sounds like a political satire against america. the US got attacked by a terrorist group and we take over afghanistan and iraq. and people have questioned the motives behind capturing iraq... it's like they scapegoat terrorists to take over iraq even though terrorism has nothing to do with it. that's what i gather so far... |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Djibril (as his name is apparently going to be officially spelled) is the leader of Blue Cosmos, so yes, he basically is a rich racist kid with a powerful arm in politics.
The phone could have worked. If Cosmic Era scientists can engineer giant robots with impenetrable armor, they can probably figure out how to strengthen cell signals to reach the lagrange points. Irrelevant, though. Yes, it was stupid to stop for the phone, but people do stupid things all the time, so it's not wholly unbelievable. She was just a little kid. Her family told her to leave it, but kids get attached to things. It's understandable. And while Shin is something of a punk, I think most of us would probably feel about the same way he does if we saw our family explode.
I don't think she was that bad. She was actually one of the better characters in a weak cast in SEED, I thought. Yeah, she's idealistic, but she's also realistic. She's not like Wing's Relena, who thought that people could just throw away weapons and everything would be nice and peaceful and all conflict would just disappear. She has an ideal world that she's trying to create, but she doesn't have any illusions about what it takes to create that world, which is why she was able to command Eternal during SEED.
Since I can't even tell whether or not you're joking, I'll point out that those kids are all orphans.
Again, Djibril's group is Blue Cosmos, not the Atlantic Federation. Blue Cosmos, thanks to the presence of the Garti Lue (or whatever that ship is called), had photographs of GINNs setting up the Junius 7 drop. Blue Cosmos, as we know from SEED, already has some pull with the Atlantic Federation, and the release of these photographs only helped strengthen that bond further. Dullindal claims that military power is important for national defense. Lots of people (myself included) speculate he's not quite as nice a guy as he has appeared so far, but for the time being there's no concrete evidence of anything amiss. They built some new machines and they created the Neutron Stampeder (which, in my opinion, seems to act specifically on nuclear weapons, making it a defensive asset only...but there's no info beyond what was shown in the series, and some disagree and think it's more like Cyclops or Genesis all over again), but that stuff has nothing to do with why they were attacked. I think the parallels to the US operations in Afghanistan and Iraq are quite intentional, though. Such parallels were more difficult to see in SEED, and yet Fukuda referenced Iraq and the war on terrorism several times in interviews about SEED, so he's clearly using them as inspiration. I'm not sure if satire is exactly the right word, though. I suppose that really depends on Fukuda's intentions. Although the Alliance extremely quick to react, and its eagerness to get an attack under way would be ridiculous in the real world, I don't think Fukuda's intending to poke fun at the situation like a satire would. I think he's just drawing on it as inspiration for story elements. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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And being Blue Cosmos, he also has dreams of establishing a new world order. Hence the group's calling card: For a Blue and Clean World.
And to add, some of the stuff he jumps on Cagalli for does make a bit of sense. For example, he had enough insight to know that people would blame Coordinators in general for Junius-7, and not just sit down and listen to ZAFT's little tale of rogue terrorists (as Cagalli suggested).
Quick note, it appears the Lacus Doppelganger's real name is something to the effect of Mia Campbell.
It's pretty much exactly as you said.
I've always seen that as just another Gundam trademark. For the sake of making conflicts more exciting and containing an entire global crisis within a single TV series, all politics and military actions are sped up greatly. Negotiations end quicker, war machines are produced quicker, and wars begin and end within a year or less in many cases. |
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