Forum - View topicNEWS: Media Factory makes request to stop fansubbing
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Maybe my hearing was bad sitting in the fourth row & all, but the way ADV's reps were talking at their AWA panel this year actually made it sound like they were waiting for footage that didn't make the cut in Japan before releasing it here.
Wait, so...let me get this straight. Did you hear this from a credible source or is this just some random hunch of yours? You said it was one, then said it was the other in the very next sentence.
The fact that "Confirmed: Kitty's Kite: Uncut is just that... UNCUT" is their headline right now doesn't really help your cause any.
The complete elimination of fansubs from the anime market at this point in time wouldn't kill it. While I do support fansubs, I have faith enough in the industry to safely say that it could thrive on its own at this point without that aspect holding it up. Really, at the moment the only genuine service fansubs are doing is to alert local distributors to popular shows that they had previously deemed "unmarketable" (Marmalade Boy & Kodocha being two relatively recent examples, with MariMite & Genshiken being two that I expect are yet to come, though would never even get a chance were it not for crowds flocking to the fansubs). At this point, I'd say fansubs do about as much harm as they do benefit to the industry. Piracy & bootlegging are an issue, but their absence might restrict the variety of anime being brought over ("A female-oriented romance comedy? Bah, who'd buy that crap? The kids want BLOOD and BOOBS and ACTION!"). The only thing keeping them afloat is probably the fact that they've been such an integral part of the industry's growth up to this point, while not necessarily packing that same punch nowadays. Letting them live on is a respectful nod to the "good old days" and little else (and a nod that's being taken for granted a little too much recently...).
Yes, the whole bootlegging bit's been well-covered.
I would like to see the day when Japanese companies treat anime like that, too. They gut creativity & production quality worse than we do.
Again, that's mostly Japan's fault. Many contracts force our guys to wait until they put the show out on DVD in Japan, and then that's usually two episodes a disc, so we have to wait until about two or three R2 discs in before one volume can come out here. It's not always exactly like this, but that's a fairly good example of the sort of delays imposed by the Japanese producers. Then there's the fact that many companies are working hard to get their old VHS releases put to DVD while handling new stuff at the same time. Pleasing fans of the hot new thing, the venerable classic, and the niche title whose limited popularity keeps it on the backburner for a while (Maburaho, anyone? What about UFO Princess Valkyrie?) is tough with limited resources, and will cause constant delays into the forseeable future. This is unavoidable. |
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The Starfall Knight
 Posts: 130 Location: Within the hearts of the people |
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Yea. Well the bottom line is that it doesn't matter if fansubs or right or wrong. As long as there are poor teenagers like me who have no solid income, we're gonna whine and moan if someone takes our free anime away. I mean, who doesn't want things for FREE?
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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Okay, lets imagine a world with no fansubs. You walk into Suncoast wanting to spend say 70 dollars on anime. How do you decide what to buy? Newer shows aren't going to have much in the way of prior exposure, so you really won't have any idea what the shows are like. Are you honestly telling me that you'll walk into a store and spend 30 dollars of your limited budget on a title that you have never seen before? Can the general consumer be counted on to do that? I would argue that people would be far more likely to buy a series with which they are already familiar. If TV becomes the primary mechanism for exposing people to new shows, and if it remains at the level it is at now. CN Adult Swim, almost exclusively, the US distributers would be in a rough spot, sales would slow dramatically, they wouldn't stop, but the would decrease. In order to maintain a profit, newer shows would be released much more slowly, and companies would stop liscencing new series immediately. The result is less anime being released. this would continue until it bottoms out at some sustainabe level.
Collapse is a strong word, but what you must understand is that the industry as we know it would be fundamentally different. Either something would have to replace fansubs, as far as a preview function is concerned, or all of us will be stuck watching CN. And by implication thats all we would buy too. Like I said, I've spent a lot of money on anime, once, and only once I bought a DVD of a series that I had never seen. One time. As I said in my first post, if exposure on TV gets to the point where people can get a good look at prospective titles, at that point the industry can be self-sustaining. But if we are limited to what we see on CN now, I don't think its a strech to say that DVD sales would decline. Possibly a lot. I'm arguing from the assumption that its far easier to convince someone to spend money on something that they are alreay pretty sure that they will enjoy. If all you have to go on is box art and an 8 sentance synopsis, you may just decide to spend you money someplace else. In essence, I think it would be very difficult for the US companies, I think sales would slow to the point that it would damage the industry and hurt the fans, since choice would become more limited. This is only my opinion, but its my opinion as a consumer in general for 20 years, and anime specifically for the last 6 or so. You are of course free to disagree. |
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Izlude
Posts: 323 Location: Wherever The Wind Takes Me |
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I wonder what site that could be...hmmm... 
-Izlude knows damn well- |
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MTierce
Posts: 33 |
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I apologize, I was unclear. What I meant was that I had heard that it was going to be cut, and that the reason was concern about US laws. I heard this from the president of my anime club, and generally his information is pretty accurate. I can't vouch for the source since I don't know it. But if what you say is true, then I'm happy that they aren't going to hack it apart. As for anime prime, take a look at some of the older news postings over the last year. As well as the in-depth reports on some of the titles released recently. |
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bluechibi
Posts: 137 |
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So should people download movies before they pay god knows how much to see it in the cinema first?
Call me crazy but I look at reviews and trailers of animes to see if I will like them. I don't download the entire series, then think shall I buy it on DVD to watch it (which makes no sense as I just watched it all for free). There are many websites like ANN, new magazines like Neo in the UK. People can find out about new anime series other ways. I have never been told about an anime by a fansub fan, whether it's good or not. If you want to watch animes for free, then borrow them off your friend or watch them on tv. |
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DragonsRevenge
 Posts: 1150 |
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LOL!! You mean.. that was the "made for tv" version? Holy... I can only imagine the uncut version is. (Probably sex.. ) |
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bluechibi
Posts: 137 |
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Just popped over to the AnimeOnDVD forum and they seem more on the ball about this. They see it as a positive thing.
Here are some quotes I agree with.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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When AIC had their English site BBS on line I had an interesting conversation with the site Admin. I asked him what the company line was about fansubs. The reponse was "We know about them and would perfer if they didn't exist. but we don't have the resources to do anything about them." I had suggested that they try beating the fansubbers at their own game by subbing their indigenous releases themselves thereby removing the alleged need to fansub in the first place. They responded that "though it is a good idea, we are not in a position to do that." which to me meant they thought it might be too expensive. I did point out that if a presumed student on a student's income could do it it couldn't be that big a cost that couldn't be returned in increased legit sales. But I got no response to that. This was before GXP was released there, and as we all now know, they didn't take it on board.
This increase in production houses in Japan shouting more often about fansubs, is down to the economy there. I have mentioned this before in another thread about a similar subject, which is that they are in a sever recession and in any recession the majority of the population doesn't have a large pot of money to invest in what is basically a luxury item. Therefore these production houses are having to increasingly look towards their overseas sales to pick up the slack in profits and they are not liking what they are discovering. So the arguement that they don't mind fansubs isn't exactly true. it just that it didn't make that much of a dent in their profits until now. One doesn't know when a bug is biting until one feels the sting. For me fansubbing go hand in hand with bootlegging if a fansub goes anywhere outside the fansubbers house in any way. 
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CorneredAngel
 Posts: 854 Location: New York, NY |
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The crucial fact people seem to be forgetting is that 2004 is not 1999. What we have now that we did not have then is a truly viable anime/manga press. I don't mean ANN in particular, either - and *do* mean things like Newtype USA and Anime Insider. Before walking into a Suncoast wanting to spend seventy bucks on anime, you've presumably sat down to read some of the anime magazines and websites to see what's hot right now and to familiarize yourself with the shows that are available. Somehow, you don't hear anyone using the 'exposure' argument for distribution of bootlegs of American films... There is no other way around it - for providing 'expsosure', at least to new and mainstream titles, fansubs are basically obsolete. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2295 Location: Online Terminal |
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There a lot of things wrong with Japan. (Eldery, aging, textbooks, birth rate, etc) However, they don't seem to realize that the recession means next to nothing in terms of relative status on the world's stage; they still have one of the strongest monies out there. However, it needs to be said that Japan's economy is based on buying. That may seem a little obvious, but what I mean is that Japanese are lured into thinking that (to paraphrase a certain flash animation) Products bring true happiness. I may even say that it's more severe than in the US. This could explain things such as the highly priced 2-epsiode DVD and whatnot. The problem is that cycling around their own money isn't necessarily helping the economy. The US recession didn't necessarily help either. Looking from an economical standpoint, yes fansubs hurt the economy, and yes there are more lucrative ways to preview anime. However, sometimes you really do need to see the real thing. If it wasn't for fansubs, I would know that at least 5 different anime were worth going after (Gunslinger Girl, UFO Princess Valkyrie, Scrapped Princess, Tsukihime, Yakitate!! Japan when it comes out) I doubt I would be thinking about buying any of them if I didn't see them first, considering how cheap I am when it comes to using my own money. |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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Increase in price? Where do you live? VHS cost approximately $25-30 (I recall the $35 Ranma 1/2 TV subbed VHS, too) R1 DVDs now tend to cost $20-25 (With sub AND dub). R1 DVDs typically hold 4-6 episodes. VHS held, at most, 4. On a per-episode basis, anime is *far* cheaper now than it was 5 years ago, or 10 years ago. If the DVD prices are higher where you live, maybe your storeowners are gouging you, and you should look elsewhere to buy your products (amazon.com ships pretty much anywhere in the world)
Legally, there's no distinction between the two. One sells for money, and one does not, but they're both in violation of the same copyright laws.
I think you'd find that many people would be enjoying FMA for the first time, right now, on Cartoon Network, if fansubs didn't exist.. and come January, you'd have sale levels equal to (or nearly equal to) what FUNimation should be expecting right now. I don't have numbers on how many people downloaded FMA, but if it's like Naruto, then there probably was only on the order of 100,000 people who downloaded it.. and even counting people who saw it with a friend, I think it'd be difficult to place over 200,000. FMA pulls 400,000 people every weekend on Adult Swim.. .. and if some of the statments made here and elsewhere bear true for the majority of the viewership, then most of these people watching FMA now are watching it for the first time, anyway. |
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bbj_ae
Posts: 3 |
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Comparing the exposure that movies get (which includes many TV commercial spots, "Late Night" shows with special guests previewing their movie, special early previews, etc) to what anime recieves is completely absurd. You have to buy a licensed anime title to see other anime previews that have been licensed by that company or download the preview online. Sure, you might have a brief synopisis from Newtype and a few other sources to give you a slight basis of what the show is about, but still anime does not get the same exposure as hollywood movies. Without fansubs, in order for the same demand that anime receives over here in the states, there needs to be more than just CN (not every place has Anime Network). Furthermore, licensing companies would need to do commercial TV spots to promote such titles, thus increasing their overhead prices. In fansubs, there is a source of free advertisement for both companies, japanese and domestic. If there were no fansubs, the only basis licensing companies would have to decide which anime would be the most profitable to license would be percentage of viewers in the japanese market. Not exactly the market they're looking for. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10454 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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You see, I'm not anti-fansub, I do think they have their place in fandom, but the sad fact is that most supporters come up with really bad reasons that fansubs should stay around... Anyways, to answer your question, if there were no fansubs, you could rent anime. There are several websites that ship virtually any anime title anywhere in the United States, and you've been able to go to blockbuster and rent anime for years now. What's more, most North Americans have access to some anime on TV as well.... Personally I prefer the rental method, but you can't completely ignore the availability of anime on TV. -t |
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RZetlin
 Posts: 87 |
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If the Japanese companies are going to cut off the fansubs, then their titles should be licensed in America ASAP.
There are some several titles which hasn't been officially licensed yet. I'm still waiting for a company to step forward to make an official announcement that they have titles like Naruto or Tri-zenon. |
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