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INTEREST: Fans Launch 'Keep Anime Alive' Pro-Industry Site

Unfortunately, I see this as a problem on both sides.

You have companies, publishers, and creators that vilify the consumer and alienate them to the point where it's almost turning into an insult,

and Consumers who are hungry for product, yet aren't able to get them and resort to less than scrupulous means.

Where is this middle ground where both can co-exist in somewhat equal harmony?

ArsenicSteel wrote:

I am endorse fan advertisement via grass roots support of independent companies and products. When a company goes public then the rules of capitalism kick in; the business puts out product, the business showcases and brings the necessary attention to the product, and the business secures the future of the product. A business not able to do this on their own fails - I am not being mean, negative, or emotionally involved by saying that.

pretty much this. I find it a little shocking how people are choosing to ignore this simple fact and are instead consumed with pointing finger amongst themselves as consumers. I can understand how people are worried about the industry and want it to last. I love anime as much as the next fan, but there is no denying that there is a serious problem here. The anime industry is the only industry I can think of who would make a more of a point to blame the consumer for it's plummeting sales rather than taking a look at itself and try and find a way to get people to start buying again.

First, this particular distinction between "an independent company" and "when a company goes public" is quite daft. Closely held commercial corporations are somehow outside the capitalist system so they are pure, while publicly trade commercial corporations are filthy capitalists, so fans should scrupulously avoid doing anything that might make the publicly trade corporation better off as a side-effect of making things better for the creators of the works that they love?

The anime industry is the only industry I can think of who would make a more of a point to blame the consumer for it's plummeting sales rather than taking a look at itself and try and find a way to get people to start buying again.

In my opinion the only way for the anime industry to survive is for the consumer to back off and let it die. I know that sounds incredibly backwards and wrong and many people will probably respond angrily towards me, which they are free to do, but in a business money is the only real language understood. If people continue to buy anime and thus the industry is able to keep going, no one will see a reason to make any real changes (and let's face it the anime industry is in dire need of real changes), on the other hand if they start losing money and end up on the brink of collapse maybe then they'll consider making real changes that will sustain the anime industry into a new era that might be a hell of a lot more profitable.

First, anime is NOT the only one doing that. Music and movie companies have been doing it for years.

Second, if the anime industry is the only industry that you know of that is struggling with the problem of how to discourage bootleg consumption while marketing to legit consumers ~ that says more about your limited horizons than about the issue at hand.

kakoishii wrote:

The anime industry is the only industry I can think of who would make a more of a point to blame the consumer for it's plummeting sales rather than taking a look at itself and try and find a way to get people to start buying again.

Ok, now I have to post a few more things...

First, anime is NOT the only one doing that. Music and movie companies have been doing it for years. To be honest, I`m not sure how well iTunes is even doing (I don`t follow the music industry), but I`ve always figure that for musicians, it`s easy even IF people download songs for free: they can still profit off concerts as an alternative. Something the anime industry can`t really do...

Movies have been doing different things too to try and more people into theatres and buy more physical copies (like the blu ray + DVD bundles). In theatres, 2010 showed TERRIBLE ticket sales I was just reading. Could it people nothing interesting was on, or did people just download it instead? Who knows... Although I do think movies had the advantage of 3D, something not everyone owns a tv/monitor of. Although it's gimmicky now, well, Avatar did make ALOT of money!

kakoishii wrote:

In my opinion the only way for the anime industry to survive is for the consumer to back off and let it die. I know that sounds incredibly backwards and wrong and many people will probably respond angrily towards me, which they are free to do, but in a business money is the only real language understood. If people continue to buy anime and thus the industry is able to keep going, no one will see a reason to make any real changes (and let's face it the anime industry is in dire need of real changes), on the other hand if they start losing money and end up on the brink of collapse maybe then they'll consider making real changes that will sustain the anime industry into a new era that might be a hell of a lot more profitable.

But they have been making changes I mean, when Pioneer/Geneon died, it happened because they had some of the most expensive DVDs on the market! When FUNI rescued some of their titles, they stuck them in boxsets and sold them for ALOT lower than what Geneon originally sold them for.
Is this not doing something right? Their original flop was the prices (although they all had artwork inside the covers, nice inserts, and usually pencil boards).
The thing is, to sell something cheaper, you need to cut the budget on alot of it... But making cheaper sets isn't enough, apparently...

It's still just taking off, so KAA can go different directions with this. But whatever they decide to do, I sure hope that having a central anime anti-piracy presence on the internet will help balance things out.

Quote:

First, this particular distinction between "an independent company" and "when a company goes public" is quite daft. Closely held commercial corporations are somehow outside the capitalist system so they are pure, while publicly trade commercial corporations are filthy capitalists, so fans should scrupulously avoid doing anything that might make the publicly trade corporation better off as a side-effect of making things better for the creators of the works that they love?

Short answer: No
I will leave it at a short answer in order to prevent you sliding down a slope and injuring yourself any further.

I endorse fan advertisement via grass roots support of independent companies and products. When a company goes public then the rules of capitalism kick in; the business puts out product, the business showcases and brings the necessary attention to the product, and the business secures the future of the product. {emphasis added}

agila61 wrote:

Second, if the anime industry is the only industry that you know of that is struggling with the problem of how to discourage bootleg consumption while marketing to legit consumers ~ that says more about your limited horizons than about the issue at hand.

don't be ridiculous, you've completely twisted my statement. I never said that the anime industry is the only industry I know of that struggles with bootlegging. That would be incredibly naive of me. I said that it's the only industry I know of that has put more of a focus on fixing the consumer rather than revolutionizing their business model. Pretty much any industry that sells a medium that can be reproduced and resold suffers the effects of bootlegging.

I don't even get what information they used to declare that anime needs to be kept alive.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

I don't even get what information they used to declare that anime needs to be kept alive.

Could it be the information they get from watching it, and reading news reports of companies pulling out of the stock market, filing for bankruptcy, or just going under? Just a thought.

Sunday Silence wrote:

Unfortunately, I see this as a problem on both sides. You have companies, publishers, and creators that vilify the consumer and alienate them to the point where it's almost turning into an insult, and Consumers who are hungry for product, yet aren't able to get them and resort to less than scrupulous means. Where is this middle ground where both can co-exist in somewhat equal harmony?

Maybe consumers should:

1-Grow a pair

2-Just be willing to live with their "hunger" and wait a few months to a year for that content to become available legally (or buy what they like and wish to support it if they do acquire it illegally)

3-Not automatically feel insulted when someone says "Please don't take my stuff!". Like I said, grow a pair. When someone says, "We think there's a problem with piracy...", don't go, "But I DO buy stuff! You hate me, you hate me, WHAAAAAAA"

I'm glad that you've retracted the claim that requires that absurd distinction, since the distinction you originally drew was quite absurd. No need to characterize it when the text speaks for itself:

First, anime is NOT the only one doing that. Music and movie companies have been doing it for years. To be honest, I`m not sure how well iTunes is even doing (I don`t follow the music industry), but I`ve always figure that for musicians, it`s easy even IF people download songs for free: they can still profit off concerts as an alternative. Something the anime industry can`t really do...

Movies have been doing different things too to try and more people into theatres and buy more physical copies (like the blu ray + DVD bundles). In theatres, 2010 showed TERRIBLE ticket sales I was just reading. Could it people nothing interesting was on, or did people just download it instead? Who knows... Although I do think movies had the advantage of 3D, something not everyone owns a tv/monitor of. Although it's gimmicky now, well, Avatar did make ALOT of money!

Aha, I had understood you to be making a patently false claim about other publishers of other content, rather than making a patently false claim about publishers of anime content.

Of course, industries don't have business models ~ businesses do. In the anime industry, in the past three years, we have gone from basically no legit online near-simultaneous international distribution to the majority of the anime broadcast having legit online near-simultaneous international distribution. But only a minority of that is due to then existing legit distributors entering into near-simultaneous international distribution, and a majority of that is due to the establishment of a new business model by a business that was previously in the business of hosting bootlegs uploaded by members.

That pace of change compares quite favorably with the music industry shifting from a primarily anti-piracy focus to the establishment of the iTunes market.

If they really wanted to support the anime industry they'd buy from Japan. Supporting companies like Funimation is not supporting anime.

Quote:

That pace of change compares quite favorably with the music industry shifting from a primarily anti-piracy focus to the establishment of the iTunes market.

yes and? none of this says how what I said was "patently false," ...

About the music industry, they were suffering (and probably still are) because of illegal downloading from programs like Frostwire and Limewire (which just got shut down recently). iTunes is doing good IMO because alot of people do download from their site. And from my knowledge, Artists don't profit off of download and CD sales. They only profit off of concerts, which is why ALOT of bands go out during the summer to make alot of profit.

You are purposefully are twisting words, ignoring points, acting obtuse, and playing around with semantics. I will not discuss or explain my opinions with you because it would just be me repeating the same points you refuse to acknowledge.

I endorse fan advertisement via grass roots support of independent companies and products. When a company goes public then the rules of capitalism kick in; the business puts out product, the business showcases and brings the necessary attention to the product, and the business secures the future of the product.

If you buy your product you are not the one being "targeted". The people who download are the "thieves" so I don't know why you are saying this.