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vashfanatic wrote:

Which I went back and edited a little to try to clarify. Japanese companies aren't likely to get sued like Funimation was, though its PTA groups are very vocal and there have been boycotts. But TV channels have still opted not to air some episodes or to edit them based on business decisions. I don't just mean Kodomo no Jikan, I mean not showing Higurashi in the regions where there was a murder that resembled one in the show, out of concern for the feelings of the victims. I am 100% okay with stations and companies making these kinds of decisions. I am not cool with the government doing it, because they don't know how to.

The government doesn't know how to put near money into a lot of needed services either. (Resident from California, and now Nevada, speaking.)

Nobody's really asking these questions: Why does the government want to regulate what a private industry does? Since when was it a good idea for said private industry to "regulate itself" when it's clearly shown that it can't?

Sticking questionable material past midnight, on DVD, onto your cellphone; past the moon. The otaku-base, and children unfortunately, are still able to view it. Tenacity implied.

And, instead of punishing the broadcasters (like we do in the UNITED STATES), Tokyo's government is trying to punish the creators.

Now, I understand where everybody's coming from. Nobody likes for the government to tell you what (not) to do. spoiler[I've been offended with how anime licensors, like FUNi, refuse to listen to the wishes of anime fans; licensing "X" instead of "Y" and then stating how they'll thoroughly ignore said wishes.] Ishihara is a "gay-hater." I get it.

But what I'm saying is that the industry and its fanbase, instead of collectively whining like a little brat, should also accept some of the blame. Seriously. They should stop giving people like Ishihara a reason to stomp all over them. ("My Little Sister...," "MM!," "Sekirei's Lost Property," on down for starters.)

Why... I went to a "JobConnect" center the other day. And I seen posters with the word THINK super-imposed everywhere. "Thinking;" the enemy of those who turn their mind off so they can enjoy mindless entertainment (or those who make money off of these people). Just think of how great the possibilities can be if people DO think. Cool

vashfanatic wrote:

Nor would Wandering Son, which runs in a seinen manga, etc. Did anybody actually read this piece? Brian gave you good examples of what will be censored. It's going to be stuff aimed at teens and children.

Even if it runs in a seinen manga magazine, seinen manga magazines are not currently treated as the equivalent of 18+ porn manga in most stores.

Imagine a boy or girl who is transgendered. Maybe they go online and they read that, hey, there's this manga written about people like them. "I'd really like to read that for emotional support."

In theory, they could be ID'd and be unable to buy the manga. Shintaro Ishihara considers them to be a genetic defective.

Why not just ask their parents? "Hey, mom, there's a girl about a boy who feels he's a girl in this magazine. Could you buy it for me?"

It's not targeted at just shonen and shojo manga. It's all manga that contains content that is not appropriate for children, using Ishihara's criteria.

Big Comic Spirits (which ran 20th Century Boys) getting locked behind the counter with Comic Tenma and loli porn is not a future I would look forward to.

Been staying out of reading anything about this but I'm glad I chose this article to start it off. Sucky that it passed but it still seems like the type of law, vague as it is, that will be shaped more after everything is done rather then shape things itself. A matter where cases will dictate to what the bill actually does. Similar to how current internet laws have been shaped and evolved.

Also, it's nice how it apparently has zero effect on the existing Adult industry which I'm sure alot of people were thinking it originally tackled. Now I see why manga companies where so serious about the bill. I thought it was more just a argument of free speech but really its more of a unfair law that doesn't really address the issue since the adult market is pretty much untouched.

ABCBTom wrote:

making very good points

Agreed. I should have specified that I meant it would not cease to exist, so mea culpa. And yeah, that's the crazy thing behind this bill: it treats intelligent but controversial subject matter on par with true pornography. That's insulting.

@Tyrenal
As for fans "taking some of the blame," your basically saying "punish teenagers for the sins of a small skeevy adult percentage." I'm not convinced that getting rid of the smutty material for adults would even do anything to stop this bill; Ishihara and his ilk are out to set the clock back to an imaginary good-old-days (of I guess before the 1950s?), and the fact that the sort of content he brings up in debates often does not actually exist is proof that reality has no real bearing on his opinion.

Thanks to this article I think I have a much better understanding of this bill and the effect that it has on the industry. And because of this new level of understanding I feel that I have a stronger stance against this bill.

Everything about this bill screams "bad idea". The language is vague, the bill was supported by some politicians that are (quite honestly) absolutely crazy, and in the end it could only have a damaging effect on the industry. From what it sounds like, this bill will not only push the manga and anime art form into a constricted corner, but it will also help lead to the strengthening of the already over powered liberal (though we wold call it conservative) movement/ anti-otaku movement in Japan. It seems like there was no actual thought given to this piece of legislation, instead it's a poorly compiled effort to restrict art and culture in Japan.

This bill actually reminds me of the Motion Picture Production Code from the 30s which restricted allot of content from being made throughout the golden age of cinema. And if you're familiar with this code then you are well aware of what kind of effect it had on the industry. Just look at the adaptation of Kings Row which was botched in order to fit the strict regulations that were put in place at the time. And it was these restrictions which made many film buffs begin to see foreign films as the more artistic daring ones (particularly french films) because they didn't have to worry about moral restrictions. Sure American film had plenty of wonderful classics while retaining to the code, but writers and directors were very verbal with their frustration with being unable to violate any of the over blown restrictions. Japan is slowly digging themselves another hole which will become increasingly harder to get out of.

And I'm also afraid of the discrimination that this bill will be able to impose on anime and manga, that is if the bill still includes a vague term like "anti-social acts". It's absolutely no stretch of the imagination to think that the LDP of Japan would want to restrict yaoi manga. Leaders of the party ,such as Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara, have been very out spoken against homosexuality and I'm sure yaoi really wouldn't sit well with them.

I honestly don't see how such an obvious violation of human rights and expression could actually be passed by a such a developed nation (or at least part of that developed nation). Come on Tokyo, when a bill is supported by a guy who claims that the Nanking Massacre was made up and that "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin," then you know it has to be a bad idea. Seriously, how did Ishihara even get elected?

But look on the bright side, this is only in effect in Tokyo and it's not applying to every aspect of art. And at least this isn't as bad as laws passed else where around the world which go even further than this. So there are a few things to be grateful for, though that said this bill is still absolute BS and should never have been passed in the first place.

I only have one questions left; is there some way in the Japanese legislation system where this law could be repealed?

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I've been hearing from everyone about how "bill 156 will restrict freedom of speech." But I've still yet to see HOW.

I do have to agree here. I have yet to see how it will effect freedom of speech.
But you know what's odd? Films and novels are unaffected by this bill, it's just anime, manga and videogames. Ishihara must really hate anime, manga and videogames. It's a shame because anime, manga, videogames (and comics in the U.S.) are always attacked. What caused all this? Five years ago, nothing like this was happening. Ishihara must be on crack.

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I'm sure yaoi really wouldn't sit well with them.

Probably not, but yaoi isn't really homosexual considering they are usually two guys that "aren't gay, they're just in love" Rolling Eyes

Yaoi doesn't even portray real gay relationships. It's just fantasy, even if it can be a little weird,(come on they're fujoshi daydreams) it's just fantasy, they shouldn't take it so seriously.

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when a bill is supported by a guy who claims that the Nanking Massacre was made up and that "old women who live after they have lost their reproductive function are useless and are committing a sin,"

Old women can't help it if they can't reproduce anymore, it's called menopause. They aren't committing a sin because they can't reproduce. And why would anyone make up the Nanking Massacre? Ishihara is on crack!

vashfanatic wrote:

Why not just ask their parents? "Hey, mom, there's a girl about a boy who feels he's a girl in this magazine. Could you buy it for me?"

If they are still a minor, they certainly should be discussing their purchases (and their sexuality) with their parents.

Say Hello to a Anime/Manga Renaissance if we want one.

I'm going plat devil's advocate simply because I'm a big believer in the Leibniz's principle of the best of all possible worlds which means that doing something truly stupid will cause the universe to kick your ass with your own stupidity in ways that you don't expect.

This a truly excellent development. The Anime and Manga Industry has been sinking into Ecchi/ Moe Hole of mediocrity for awhile and this just the kick in the pants it needs.

I've been reading a book about Shakespeare and how the environment of censorship forced all the theaters of this period to set up stage outside of London proper and writers where forced write complex "shadowplays" that hide the true subject within the poetry leading of course to the creations of the greatest writer of the English language.

However, there is something else required for Renaissance of that kind i.e. a culture of freedom and creativity that runs parallel to the censorship but is outside of it. During the time of Shakespeare Italian culture was at the end run of it's Renaissance and power was shifting away from center towards England and the Netherlands. However, the legacy of the earlier periods of scientific and artist creativity where being strongly studied by the new powers. The combination of new eyes studying the classical culture of Greece and Renaissance culture of Italy prove invaluable as a source of inspiration for the culture that the great art of the English Renaissance.

I believe that both elements of a cultural transform and climate of political censorship and conflict is what makes for the best environment for artistic greatness. Under the right conditions, censorship can be the basis creative arts to quitely but powerfully mock those pursue idiotic attacks on freedom and in a strange and wonderful way creates it's own special kind of freedom and remind all of us the value aspect of artistry than can easily be forgotten in to permissive environments.

. I also find parallels to what is happening generally geopolitically in the global context.

The English Renaissance was part of the generalized South to North geopolitical power transfer in European life from Rome and trading centers like Venice and Florence to London and Amsterdam. The current situation is similar as the world experience a geopolitical power transfer from Anglo-American Atlantic system toward a Pacific Orientation. The United State and Britain are on their very last legs of the power that resulted from the post-WWII boom.

Therefore, America which still a major consumer and cultural producer actually export students from our University system back toward Asia and not surprising that is exactly what is happening, however I believe that cultural departments of while targeting these Asian transfer student should rediscover and study period of American ascendancy during the 19th century and our rivalry with the British Empire and then take that knowledge take to Japan, Korea, China, and India and use it to produce greatness like nothing we can predict.

So the Youth Bill isn't the end of the world but just new beginning and for possibly something good because if stupid men and laws didn't produce some unexpectedly good results then the world would ended a long time ago.

I suggest a starting with shadow plot in within a law compliant Anime/Manga about a certain antagonist that preaches against materials that are "sexually stimulating, encourages cruelty, and/or may compel suicide or criminal behavior" while he is secretly in involved with activity that can be "considered to be excessively disrupting of social order" in Tokyo.

If anyone on this board knows someone in the industry I hope someone could suggest this approach as original approach to otherwise familiar types of the medium.

Septeus7 wrote:

[mindless nonsense]

Umm... what?

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I should also point out that since novels and films are not affected by this law, it oddly prioritizes older kinds of media at the expense of newer ones. (With its aging population and declining birthrate, Japan is quickly becoming even more of a gerontocracy than it has been in previous decades.) Thankfully, this also means that Bill 156 is not an across the board muzzling of creativity and critical art in Japan. However, it is potentially a hollowing out of two of Japan's most noteworthy art forms. It's ironic that Tokyo passed this legislation just a few months after Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry (METI) established an office to promote the country's “culture industries” around the world (including anime, manga, and video games). Based on comments made by the prime minister, it seems that the Tokyo government and the national government are currently working at cross purposes in this regard.

Would it be too crazy if Tokyo politicians were actually fearful of the controversial aspects of anime/manga and their impact on the marketability of it outside Japan?

dewlwieldthedarpachief wrote:

Would it be too crazy if Tokyo politicians were actually fearful of the controversial aspects of anime/manga and their impact on the marketability of it outside Japan?

The acceptance (though small) of Japanese animation and comics in the mainstream of western pop culture over the last 45+ years would seem to negate any of these "fears", wouldn't it? Anyway the horse bolted long, long ago (see the furore over the UK release of Urotsukidoji by the UK tabloid press in the 1990's), so what the hell is the point of shutting the gate now?

Septeus7 wrote:

I'm going plat devil's advocate simply because I'm a big believer in the Leibniz's principle of the best of all possible worlds which means that doing something truly stupid will cause the universe to kick your ass with your own stupidity in ways that you don't expect.

As an academic point, what you describe is neither an apt characterisation nor an obvious consequence of Leibniz's optimistic principle. If we were to assume that Leibniz's criteria for assessing the "goodness" of possible worlds include the amount of suffering one would incur within each world as a consequence of committing a demonstrable act of irrationality therein, then I may consider your somewhat "karmic" definition suitable for practical purposes. Unfortunately, I am not aware of any scholarly conventions that make such a bold assumption.

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Anyway the horse bolted long, long ago (see the furore over the UK release of Urotsukidoji by the UK tabloid press in the 1990's), so what the hell is the point of shutting the gate now?

Indeed, such a media raucous has since dissipated, save perhaps for the remaining cuts to domestic releases of Urotsukidoji. At least the discussion prior to the (unfortunate) passing of the Coroners and Justice Bill did not cause much of a stir amongst the Mail-reading masses.

@ Septeus7: My main criticism of your whole schpiel is that I strongly believe NOTHING good will come of this bill, in terms of the intent of its drafters. The only positive result possible would be from those pioneering groups in opposition to the bill. They have creatively found ways to sidetrack censorship and regulatory affronts to artistic expression in the past.

Furthermore let me make it perfectly clear, there is no such agenda or trend that you speak of regarding ecchi/moe. It is merely a notion some fans who are mildly delusional (such as yourself) have, attributed to the increase in transparency with the diversity and quantity of shows that get released in Japan. This is due to the steady increase in exposure and quantity of titles available in the U.S. The N.A. anime industry had to appeal to a mainstream audience early on, but as demand for it grew, a wider range of genres and themes became facilitated, thus giving the (false) impression that anime has slowly become more and more niche and targeted to those who enjoy fanservice, and increased visual appeal of characters.

That's not to say that artists haven't become more progressive and daring, but mainly due to push from consumers who are deserving of the rich expressive freedoms that have been apparent in Japan's pop culture all along.

First, I would like to say that I am deeply disgusted by this article... The author is clearly very opinionated and very bias toward this bill. Mr. Ruh attack the bill then he went on to attack Japan as a free society.

I guess in Mr. Ruh point of view FREE SOCIETY doesn't have LAWS, never mind that Tokyo's Youth Ordinance Bill 156 was VOTED by the Assembly into a bill... Hint it was VOTED.
I for one support this bill as a beginning to the right direction for the Anime/Manga industry. Unlike Ruh, I don't know how the Anime/Manga will be 5 years from now but I can only hope it's for the better as we have less harmful materials surrounding childrens, contents about children in a very harmful and malice depiction needs to be regulated, this is not the wild west.

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Not only was the bill a strike against free speech and creativity,

You should be a shame of yourself for writing such an arrogant and bias statement. How does this bill strike at FREE SPEECH and creativity ? It does NOT. If anything it pushes free FREE SPEECH and creativity by allowing more creative control to the publishers and creators. It will actually pushes the creator to create more original contents for children under 18.

I've been reading Marvel Comics and DC Comics for 20 years now, and I have to say I have never seen a girl getting raped or 2 girls/2 boys making out in any of the Spider-Man, Batman, X-Men or Superman comics. I guess Marvel Comics and DC Comics are attacking American FREE SPEECH and creativity. You called yourself a writer Ruh?

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which will restrict “any manga, anime and video games that feature any sexual acts that would violate criminal codes or Tokyo ordinances OR sexual depictions between close relatives who could not legally get married to be treated as adult material IF they are presented in [an] ‘unjustifiably glorified or exaggerated manner.’”

This is BAD because? Do you want to see your 10 years girl reading a Manga about some 10 years girl getting rape Brian? You're some father Rub..

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Ishihara defended it by saying that works that depict 7 or 8 year olds being raped have no justification whatsoever. Okay, I'm with him there (although I would still defend any such artistic work on free speech grounds

It's called moral responsibility retard... I'm disgusted to think that you even think the idea of a 7 years old girl being raped is OK by using FREE SPEECH. NO ARTISTS should ever be allow to depict any children being RAPED and ask the consumers (Father, Mother, Uncle, Brother, Sister) to buy or support his DAMNED WORKS.

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You might find such images in the hardest of hardcore pornographic manga and anime, but it is certainly far from commonplace. And even if you wanted to get rid of such products, Bill 156 would not do the trick.

The reason why the BILL can not touch hardcore pornographic manga and anime is because those materials has a 18+ rating. This bill is to polices any children materials that are sold to 12 years old boys and girls...

Ruh, you're a poor writer. When I was growing up I was watching Yamato, Dragonball, Saint Seiya, City Hunter, and now I'm watching Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece. What does this 3 Manga/Anime have in common? All 3 are on the top 10 Manga sold of all time in Japan. One Piece sold over 200 million copies and rank as #1, Naruto is # 5 with over 100 copies sold and Bleach 80 million copies sold.

Now, let me guess One Piece sold over 200 million copes is a strike against freedom of Speech too? When was the last time a manga about a 7 years old girl being raped when to the top of the Orion Chart in Japan? NEVER...

As for all the people think Bill 156 is BAD then all I have to say to you people is go read a Spider-Man, X-Men, Batman, Superman comic books and you'll find yourself asking why bill 156 was need to be instated in the first place. If it's about protect our child then I am all for the Bill, hell i will even go as far as I say I want all the Hentai banned. That probably won't happen because of sick people like you Ruh, but Bill 156 is a start in the right directions.

His last name is Ruh, not Rub.

You're just as biased as he is.

And you're completely and utterly wrong. FORCING publishers to do something is not giving them control. Taking away choices is not encouraging creativity.

The fact that you haven't personally seen something in a comic you've read is meaningless. Rape and homosexual content exists in some US comics.

Your entire post is full of straw men. And it also resorts to personal attacks, so it will probably be deleted or edited anyways. It's laughable that you consider him a poor writer I think.

And your last point is meaningless. What does popularity have to do with free speech?

Oh, by the way.

One Piece has a spoiler[whole side story about someone who wants to marry Nami... against her will. While she is unconscious. What exactly do you think he was going to do to her afterwards?]

Bleach has a weird scene (spoiler[which I consider an example of poor taste on Kubo) which has Mayuri apparantly sexually healing his genetically engineered "daughter". Nothing was shown, but that was the implication.]

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