You are welcome to look at the talkback but please consider that this article is over 11 years old before posting.
Forum - View topicNEWS: Crunchyroll Launches Full Site in Spain, Portugal
|
Goto page 1, 2, 3 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
YuriGirl
 Posts: 12 Location: Virginia |
|
|||||
|
Go Crunchyroll! Spread anime around the world!
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
phoenixalia
Posts: 1408 |
|
|||||
|
Now if you could open one up in India as well, Crunchy? Yea, right.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
|
|||||
|
CR is down worldwide, right now. haha
|
||||||
|
||||||
mdo7
 Posts: 6482 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
|
|||||
|
Congrats, Spain and Portugal. Hopefully the Korean Dramas on CR will also be viewed in Spain and Portugal, which can help expand not only anime but also the Korean Wave (Spain does have a big K-pop and hallyu fanbases, so this could be beneficial for our fans in Spain) to those 2. Now all we need is Hulu and Dramafever in Europe to help expand obscure program and Korean dramas to those 2 countries since not only anime fans, but fans of the K-pop culture.
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
chronos02
Posts: 272 |
|
|||||
|
I just hope they do translations from Japanese to Spanish and not be stupid like many other companies that just imported the Latin Spanish subtitles and/or dubs to Spain, if they do this, they're going to die here. Spanish people don't like Lating Spanish at all, and at some points they hate it, and more so with anime and manga, where Latin Spanish speakers have been extremely rude (in general terms, obviously) to the Spanish community in forums, conventions, etc. And on the other hand, Spanish people don't like Latin Spanish fansubs at all, to they point of hate and going as far as taking fansubs of other languages they don't understand much just to avoid them (not to mention they do subs horribly, full of grammatical, spelling and word-meaning errors.
Spain is also a country specially sensible to quality, and if releases don't meet their standards, they just go to fansubs (talking about anime here). Not to mention, they pirate quite a lot even if titles are licensed in there (they are not sensible to downloading licensed material without permission, though this, mysteriously, doesn't apply a lot to anime, though, as I said just now, if their quality standards are not met, they do so). I foresee a dark future for Crunchyroll in Spain. PS: I'm from Spain, and if it weren't for fansubs, I wouldn't be spending 200-300$ each month on Japanese releases, because Spanish releases suck, a lot. Though Madoka's release was mysteriously good, so I bought it, and Aniplex is also importing the Japanese Madoka Movie BD versions here, with a booklet in Spanish and subs in Spanish (from Spain, not Latin America, hopefully, as they usually get cheap translators, aka Latin Spanish translators...). PS2: This is not discrimination towards Latin Spanish speakers, it's just a picture of what's going on in Spain regarding the Spanish's feelings towards them and their language (Latin Spanish speakers do not follow the RAE's (Real Academia de la Lengua Española) standards), centered in the anime/manga community. |
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
You don't say? Probably that's because they're completely independent of Spain and have each created their own vernacular? Expecting them to follow a linguistic ruleset created by Spain is asinine, especially when you consider that Latin America (minus Brazil and French Guiana) has a lot more people in it than Spain does. Britain at least tolerates American English (publicly at least) so I don't see why Spain has such a hard time dealing with Latin-American Spanish. Not that I'm saying that there should be a bunch of region-specific slang and what-not in subs either, but opting for ustedes instead of vosotros is something I don't consider a huge change. Also, why did the RAE get rid of 'ch' and 'll' as letters? They totally ruined my alphabet song that I learned way back in Spanish I in middle school. |
||||||
|
||||||
CrowLia
 Posts: 5530 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
No, of course it's not. You're just saying we don't know our own language, our translators are cheap and wrong, we have low quality standards, etc. But we're the ones that are rude. It's been 500 years since Spanish came to this side of the Atlantic, saying our Spanish is wrong is like saying Spanish is a wrong vernaculus of Latin. Don't play victim, when it comes to subs and dubs, the hate comes from both ways, more on dubs though, I don't see many people here at least, hating on Spanish subs. I've seen people killing each other on the internet over whether a dubbed Disney song is better in Spanish or Latin Spanish. Also, nobody follows RAE. Not on this side of the Atlantic or that one. Please get off your high horse. I also want to remind you that many RAE words come from Latin America, and that even Spanish -from Spain- is constantly morphing -because that's what languages do- The Spanish you speak and write would probably make Cervantes and Quevedo cry. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
|
|||||
|
As a non Spanish speaker, how different exactly is Latin spanish and Spain spanish?
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
CrowLia
Posts: 5530 Location: Mexico |
|
|||||
|
The grammar and spelling is essentially the same, but the vocabulary and slangs are worlds apart, and the accent is also different. For a quick example, the word for ticket, in Mexico is "boleto", in Spain, it's "billete", which in Mexico means "bill" as in money.
Heck, even Latin American Spanish is very different in regions. For the life of me I can never understand Cuban people when they speak, and Argentinian slang can sometimes be way beyond me. Another example is the word "concha", which in Mexico can be a "clam" or a very common type of bread, but in Argentina it's a way to say "vagina". My mom is Colombian (but I am Mexican-born) and I have dealt with many misunderstandings because some Colombian words that I've become accustomed to use have different meanings in Mexican Spanish or don't exist at all (i.e. in Colombia, people call kids "chino" affectionately, but in Mexico that word means "curly-haired" -it can be a pet name for a specific person- or "Chinese") |
||||||
|
||||||
kgw
 Posts: 1197 Location: Spain, EU |
|
|||||
|
I can assure you that the main difference sometimes is "ustedes" instead of "vosotros" (or the opposite). I am Spanish, I have read many CR subs.
"Neutral" Spanish (i.e. Pan-American one) do not reflect every minor difference for Mexican, Colombian or Argentine Spanish, because, well, Mexicans do not speak like Argentines (and vice versa). And besides, in the written form there are much, much less differences than speaking. Of course, if some Spanish fans want to pay nothing, they can claim that their neighborhood's speak is not quite reflected. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
chronos02
Posts: 272 |
|
|||||
You clearly didn't read attentively what I wrote... I never said you guys don't know your own language, are rude and wrong; if you read what I wrote word by word instead of reading an implied meaning which is not there, you will clearly see that what I mean is that Spanish companies take in Latin Spanish speakers because they pay them much less than Spanish ones; being both languages different the translations they do don't look correct to Spanish folk, and customers aren't satisfied. Who is in his high horse? Some Spanish folk may not follow the RAE standards, but schools and universities are required to teach those standards, and companies are essentially required to follow them, as they are the Spanish neutral standard. This means that translators are also required to use those standards if they want the customers to read happily. And just as you said, in Latin America, Latin Spanish speakers do not follow the RAE, as the RAE is aimed at the Spanish in Spain. They were separated 500 years ago, after all. But it's also because of that that Latin Spanish just doesn't fit in Spain (among other reasons). Regarding fansubs, just go check WZF and many others, they don't care at all about grammar. Official translations and subtitles are fine, but not fansubs (there must be some that do it correctly, but from the thousands of episodes I've seen subbed in Latin Spanish, just a very, very few didn't have grammar and spelling errors). And... no, I'm not playing victim, you are the one doing so by getting offended by an implied meaning which is just not there. And, I don't give a damn about those two authors, they had their time, their work has been preserved, I've read all their works too, but that's it. They are just a relic. And yup, languages keep evolving, but that's the work of the population, not the work of companies, they must follow the RAEs standards if they want a piece of cake in the Spanish market. They are obviously not really required to do so, but that would doom their business. And this has happened many times here. There's even Ivrea who is trying to penetrate the Spanish market with their Spanish translations, but which are done by Latin Spanish translators who also speak Spanish, unfortunately their sentence structure, vocabulary, etc. just doesn't cut it, but they keep surviving because their main branch in Argentina keeps them alive in Spain (I've tried reading the Haruhi Novels they published in Spain and it's impossible to read it leisurely, same goes for many manga they have brought over, some even with their Latin Spanish translation...). Anyway, the thing is, if they get Spanish translators then they might be able to get a very successful business in Spain, if they use Latin Spanish translators to reduce costs (because they already have them, for the Latin Spanish market)... they're going to flunk terribly.
Please stop trolling Last edited by chronos02 on Sun May 05, 2013 9:46 am; edited 2 times in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Ser3n
Posts: 11 |
|
|||||
|
I can understand chronos02. I'm portuguese and I gotta say people here don't like reading subs in brazilian portuguese. Instead we prefer to read it in english, if those are our only 2 options. So yes, if they do it like that they won't be able to penetrate our market either.
I don't have anything against brazilians - that is not the issue here. I'm sure they don't enjoy reading stuff in our portuguese. Though I bet CR's subs are gonna be in brazilian portuguese - don't see them translating it for our portuguese, since it's used by far fewer people =P |
||||||
|
||||||
|
chronos02
Posts: 272 |
|
|||||
Unfortunately the grammar, morphology, syntax and vocabulary are quite different between Latin Spanish and Spanish. For starters, in Latin Spanish they nearly exclusively use the "Pretérito Perfecto Simple" for every single past tense sentence, written or spoken, when Spanish folk use all of the different past tenses continuously. An interesting fact is that Spanish folk use constantly the "Pretérito Perfecto Compuesto" for immediate past tense sentences, as well as for sentences involving something that has been done recently but no other events have "cut". As an example: For a same situation where you went to buy some cigarretes and just walked home, your friend asks you what you just did. Latin Spanish: - ¿Dónde fuiste? - Fui a comprar tabaco. Spanish: - ¿A dónde has ido? - He ido a comprar cigarrillos. As you can see, the Latin Spanish uses the "Pretérito Perfecto Simple" for an inmediate past action, whereas the Spanish speaker uses the Pretérito Perfecto Compuesto. In this case, if a Spanish person had a Latin Spanish friend, and the Latin Spanish friend asked him "¿Donde fuiste?", he would probably understand because of the situation (him just coing back from buying cigarretes), but if the situation were different and the question was asked suddenly after the Spanish went, for example, to the kitchen, the Spanish person would be clueless as to what the Latin Spanish person was asking, as "Pretérito Perfecto Simple" in Spanish is used for past events that have been cut off from present ones by other actions and/or events (for example, a day); So the Spanish speaker would probably reply "¿Cuando?", meaning "when?" referring to "what time does the Latin Spanish refer as to where he went with the "fuiste" ". In a very simplified way, we could say that in Spain, "Pretérito Perfecto Simple" is used for events that happened a longer time ago than when using "Pretérito perfecto Compuesto", which is used for immediate past events. As I said, this is a very simple explanation and does NOT get the whole scope of these two verbal tenses in Spanish from Spain. Likewise, latin Spanish folk would've used the "Pretérito Perfecto Simple" to events that just happened a second ago to the ones that happened some days ago, we could say that it's more simple, though I can't ascertain this. Also, "Boleto" in Spanish means "Ticket", this happens in many areas. For example, "Llanta" in Spanish means the "Rim", a tire's cover; while on Latin Spanish, the "Llanta" is the tire itself, while the rim is called "Rines de lujo" (lujo meaning luxery, I've always wondered why they added that). The tire in Spanish is called "Pneumático" or "Neumático". Also, keep in mind my explanation works in general terms, there are many Spanish Latin variants in Latin América, and so are many Spanish variants in Spain, though in Spain they are all governed by the RAE, so it somehow maintains a certain order in grammar, morphology and syntax, though it doesn't really manage to keep the vocabulary the same, but there's a standard vocabulary too, and everyone in Spain understands, for example, the news. PS: As an interesting fact, many people who wish to learn Spanish (as the general language seen by the rest of the world) tend to go to Latin Spanish schools (unknowingly, because others have told them it's easy to learn there), because it's much simpler to learn to speak it, as Latin Spanish speakers use situational context to communicate a lot more than Spanish speakers from Spain (where the situational context only applies, mostly, to the Articles like "él", "ella", etc. (him, her, etc.), while on Latin Spanish they never leave the articles out of sentences, except for the "tú" (you)). |
||||||
|
||||||
agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||
So you are saying that Iberian Spanish speakers will object to subtitles written in a general Panamerican Spanish style, and so they will stick to fansubs instead, which are worse. Yeah, that sounds like anime fans. Always with the rationalizations and unrealistic expectations.
Yes, I'd bet quite long odds it will be the same PT-BR that are already used. Those that prefer the English will, of course, have that option. That is already built into the basic site design, just switch the language to English and you'll get the (American) English subtitles. Is Mozambican and Angolan Portuguese closer to the Iberian Portuguese or closer to Portuguese Brasileiro? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
chronos02
Posts: 272 |
|
|||||
Yes, Iberian Spanish speakers will not stand for any type of Latin Spanish subtitles and/or dubs. But they will not go to fansubs in any sort of Latin Spanish fansubs either. They will go to the Iberian Spanish fansubs (such as Anime Underground or Inshuseki) that correctly use grammar, morphology and syntax, but that also use the Iberian vocabulary. And you are severely mistaken thinking that fansubs have worse quality than official releases, in the past 10 years official releases have gone from bad to worse in quality, int both image and translation (including dubs and subs), whereas fansubs have gone from good to excellent in these fields (not all fansubs, of course). As of now, I'd rather get a fansubbed episode of any anime (including TV, OVA, ONA) over the official "superior" release, which frequently have mistranslations, unnecessary localization, censoring, horrible physical edition quality, bad encoding and horrible bit rates, lack of original audio (in some cases), lack of full quality audio from the jp release (nearly all of the releases), zillions of ads not related to anime or the same genre, etc. Right now, fansubs have (not applied to all) great distribution methods, great subtitle quality, subtitle styles, great encoding, original audio in its original state, and no ads. You can think whatever you want of us people who'd rather get our anime from fansubs rather than those official releases that mostly suck. Many of us even go as far as getting the official Japanese releases, when those are around 5 times or more in price than the localized counterparts. We rationalize in terms of release quality and price, we are not some pitiful people who "thank" the licensee companies for bringing some anime into our country in the form of cheap releases. It's fine that companies release some cheap anime in dubious quality editions for those who don't have money to spend in their hobby, but for us who are willing to sacrifice some alcohol, parties and trips to get our high quality anime, it's beyond annoying and it pisses us off. Fortunately it seems that with the Madoka Magika series, Selecta Vision has transcended and finally noticed that there is a very big portion of Spanish customers willing to buy high quality though expensive releases, and they have brought the Madoka Movies from the Limited Japanese Edition here, which I will be buying without second thoughts. We don't mind that they milk us as long as the releases have the same quality as the Japanese counterparts, but with Iberian Spanish subtitles done by a professional, and corrected by a professional (nowadays they don't hire correctors), and finally being quality checked by a group of professionals (which they don't do either). From there, they can release simultaneously a much cheaper version for those who don't want to pay the premium, which will have the same good subtitles as us, and a good release overall, even if the container isn't as good and there are no goodies. When the industry finally understands this is a niche market where a nice chunk of people are willing to spend their money in, things will finally start going well. If it ends up going into a full commercial market, fine, but right now it is not. But for now, we'll keep with our good fansubs, buying the Japanese editions, and supporting moves like the one Selecta Vision has done. The rest can just go burn in hell for all we care. Things were much better in terms of editions in the 90s, though the translations sometimes sucked, but at least they were corrected and quality checked. Thus, right now, in terms of release quality: Japan>fansubs>>>official release>>>>>>>bad fansubs Edit: I forgot to mention movies receive a special treatment in Spain, and are thoroughly translated and correctly adapted to our use of the language, corrected, and quality checked. This unfortunately did NOT happen to the movies Death and Rebirth and The End of Evangelion, which they nto only translated some parts quite horribly, but they also did not correct the subtitle tracks, nor was there any sort of quality check, as the subtitles and dubs were completely different (not the subs for the deaf, which followed the dub). There was also a HUGE lack of consistency in terms (there was a switch from Angel to Apostle in a scene), as well as in the dub, which they switched Asuka's VA from D&R to another in TEoE, as well as at least one side character (can't remember it too well, I've bought all the Spanish editions of the movies and just stored them to subsequently download a fansubbed version with a good English and Spanish translation with the original audio). Edit 2: We know the licensors have a rough time, but they must do their job so we are satisfied if they want to subsist, considering the good fansubs as their target in quality is a must in this day and time, instead of considering them as a pest, heck, many companies use fansubs to know what series to bring next... (I know this by first hand, being in this industry and all -_-). Edit 3: Here is the movie edition they are bringing, I didn't notice the menus won't be in Spanish, but at least the subtitles will be. http://www.selecta-vision.com/Home-Entertainment/Puella-Magi-Madoka-Magica-The-Movie-Beginnings-Eternal-Edicion-Bluray-Coleccionista Last edited by chronos02 on Sun May 05, 2013 12:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group