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Forum - View topicThis Week in Games - Nintendo Lays Down the Law
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malvarez1
Posts: 2144 |
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I’m pretty excited for Freedom Wars, since I never had a Vita.
Palworld was playing with fire; I’m not too shocked. |
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crh1985
Posts: 74 |
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I will have to see what they are targeting with there case
Is it a full violation (I don’t think so there is to much of a difference) Is it a partial violation (i can see this as quite a few of the pals look similar to some pokemon.) Or is it a spotting violation (yea i know this is probably there as many of the models are models from pokemon with changes afterwards, and yes this can still be a violation but most times will be settled outside of court as it can be spotty for both sides and can look good for the plaintive [aka Nintendo]) |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
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It's a patent lawsuit, not a copyright. So it's likely sidestepping all of that. |
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Stelman257
Posts: 313 |
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Yeah I feel that, it really seems like they got drunk on the controversy and spitefulness they were enabling of so many people, and now they're paying the price. Not to mention how high they rose in player count before their fad wore off. I think it's also a shame that this all really only happened because of the state Pokemon Scarlet and Violet launched in. I adore those games, some of the most fun I've had with Pokemon ever, but at launch all people saw were a broken, buggy, mess of a game and it fueled the spite that led to people making such a stir about Palworld, and Pocketpair very obviously leaning into that and flying way too close to the sun. Wild what kind of knock-on effects some things can have. |
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LinkTSwordmaster
 Posts: 559 Location: PA / USA |
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....after what I said about the Dragon Quest slime the other week, I feel like I'm specifically being summoned here. OMFG Persona, she better eventually become a playable party member! Is she navigator-only? I want to point out that Persona has been in dire need of moving on from highschool for a while. Especially with the pseudo-adult relationships you could have in Persona 5, it felt really weird to be playing a (gender-locked) character that could only express themselves as hetero, but still be allowed to romance your teacher. Eternal Punishment (Persona 2: Part 2) back on the PS1 was my first dive into Megami Tensei back in the day, and it follows actual adult characters that are of varying ages and walks of life and actually allows your party to go out drinking together. In fact, if you play Part 1 the game full-on allows the Part 1 main character to opt-in & be absolutely & openly-bi. It's maddening as a classic player to see how much worldbuilding Persona 1 and both parts of Persona 2 contained, that has either been lost/discarded/restrained since Persona 3. It made sense to have finite time in Persona 3, and a highschool schedule fit that game's theme, but the weather system in P4 was a bit of a stretch, and by Persona 5 it felt like they were phoning themselves through the motions. I actually had a much more fun time with Strikers. It's bananas to me that aged-up characters in Ultimax aside, Persona has a really awesome idea for an adult party character (she may only be a "navigator", it seems) that's not been seen since Persona 2, yet is only available in a side game developed primarily for mobile. I can only imagine where the series could potentially go if they had a gender-select main character that was once again free to romance anyone & worked at a black corporation. Imagine an adult Persona game where you set your own schedule, have to submit to your boss' hellish work deadlines, choose to go drinking with friends at night or get sleep, or sign up for college classes at night to plan a better career. Pick and design your own schedule, date a younger guy just-starting college, date an older widowed mom and seriously grow closer as you look after her and her kid the way P4 had you be a responsible older sibling to Nanako. Imagine playing a character in their thirties, romancing a mid-forties character that ages down in the metaverse, with a backstory that deals with the realities of aging, health, and using Persona powers to re-capture one's youth after starting a family. Tatsuya was just such a wild, emotional ride of a character back in the day, and he captured such a unique snapshot of a time in a person's life. I really wish they would explore characters like that again, taking party cast from Persona 1 in school that by Eternal Punishment were respected adults in society's working world.... and the consequences when you "slip through the cracks". I'm dead serious when I say this - if Persona 5 X or even 6 hits consoles and lets me romance an older guy or lady like Kayo Toyama, I'm buying an entire PS5 for it. An older mid-forties character that ages down in the metaverse seems like such a brilliantly-unique idea for a Persona character. I get that it might be an audience demographic issue, but it's driving me insane when I love Megami Tensei and stuff like Rune Factory but I'm forced to play a character that looks like they still receive an allowance from their parents. |
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Uchay
Posts: 84 |
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While I overall agree with everything you wrote, I do want to note that Shin Megami Tensei (1992) came up with the "monster recruit/capture" thing before the first Pokemon (1996) game came out, as different the overall execution is, so it'd be hella funny if Nintendo tried to sue Atlus for it
Dragon Quest 5 (1992) also did the monster recruiting thing first, too, but I guess Dragon Quest Monsters does lean into that way more and came out two years after the first Pokemon game. |
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LinkTSwordmaster
Posts: 559 Location: PA / USA |
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When the Digimon show first came out, Agumon always looked like a "discount Charmander" to me. Nintendo choosing to sue on patent grounds is baffling since most of what rubbed me wrong about PalWorld was how it looked like it scrambled various existing Pokemon assets to make its creatures. That's a copyright thing, no? That they're going after something to do with a patent is ominous, and I've always been against patenting game mechanics stuff to the point that it limits other creators from giving us something like Monster Rancher or Monster Hunter Stories. |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
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Sadly, she seems to be just a navigator. Still, it's been ages since we've had someone above the age of 18 as a main character in a Persona game. Heck, back in Persona 2: Eternal Punishment, we had adults in their 20s! With day jobs, even! Ulama struggled with her love life, you had Katsuya having a quarter-life crisis... hell, Baofu was a guy in his 30s! Being true to yourseld doesn't just apply to high-schoolers.
That's part of why I don't buy into the argument that Nintendo is trying to prevent other monster-taming RPGs from existing. There are a lot of ways to do those games, and many of them predate Pokémon! Palworld just really wanted to lean into aiming and throwing balls at monsters. |
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AiddonValentine
 Posts: 2359 |
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Eh, the thing about PocketPair is it really comes off like they were poking the bear and expecting not to get bit. Well, now they are, and I find it amusing it's being done over such a boring game. They couldn't make up a more unique capturing mechanic. And capturing mechanics can help bring a bit of worldbuilding to a setting, like in SMT where you negotiate with demons to show that demons aren't wild or irrational, they're intelligent and can be reasoned with, or Monster Hunter Stories where you find eggs and show how monsters raised by humans are different from their wild counterparts. Just copying something so obviously is boring.
As for how this goes, well, Nintendo typically doesn't file this unless they know they can win so...HOOBOY, not looking forward to the internet over the next few months. In the meantime, I'm gonna watch that DMC trailer some more to find Easter eggs. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Uchay
Posts: 84 |
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Oh, for sure. Even if Nintendo wanted to, it's just not something that would hold up in court and they know that very well. I'm pretty sure there's precedent that game mechanics that are way too 'broad' get dismissed in court. Developers generally can't even patent that stuff, as we saw when Nintendo tried to patent some broad game mechanics in Tears of the Kingdom. The reason Palworld even entered their shitlist is 100% related to the controversy on the designs, and there's no way pocketpair didn't know what they were doing with those designs lol the biggest reason they became as big as they did was because of that. No way they didn't have a defense ready for a copyright lawsuit. The patent infringement lawsuit is just because Nintendo knew the low hanging fruit wasn't the way to go. Nintendo lawyers spent months scouring the game to find patent infringements and to organize their case, most certainly because of the designs and the controversy---I said this before, but damn Nintendo's legal team is scary. |
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light turner
Posts: 190 |
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I think that's the point. People will think anything is a rip off regardless if it is or not. The amount of misinformation and bitterness surrounding this situation and Palworld in general is pretty clear these people would be the ones calling DIgimon a Pokemon a rip off back in the 90s when it came out. It comes down to tribalism and people defending their favorite franchises from any competition or outside threat, not actual facts or logic. We've been seeing it since the "Power Rangers is just a rip off of Voltron" days. Not that I feel 'ripoff' is necessarily a bad thing. Digimon Adventure's anime staff are on record specifically said they were trying to target kids who grew out of Pokemon by making the original Adventure anime more adult to specifically get that audience Trying to capture the people who grew out of Pokemon seems like a fine strategy to me whether it's Digimon or Palworld and largely why I do like those franchises more these days. I'm still waiting for that new Digimon Story game. I do have to raise my eyebrow at the article saying "It's just a shame they got so caught up in trying to stir controversy" because I don't think Pocketpair did anything to stir controversy besides existing. All the controversy I saw was entirely from fanboys either calling it a "Pokemon rip off" or a "Pokemon killer". I don't recall Pocketpair ever stirring the pot themselves. Last edited by light turner on Fri Sep 20, 2024 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DRWii
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As someone who liked Freedom Wars' setting and little else, I'm curious if any changes in the remaster will make it more solo-friendly.
Poor Zenkichi, already getting memory-holed. |
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FeelMyBlade
Posts: 155 |
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See this just sounds nothing like Persona to me. All Persona-but-with-adults pitches just sound uninteresting and seem to just divorce the franchise from it's core identity. I know there's some people - westerners specifically - who claim to be big Persona fans but do nothing but trash the series for things like having a male protagonist, having straight relationships, letting you date adults, having fanservice and sexual content of the girls, and other "problematic" content but that's what Persona is. It's a high school life simulator. People can bring up Eternal Punishment as much as they want but they should also remember Persona 1 and Innocent Sin had a high school cast as well. Also Eternal Punishment was the lowest selling entry in the franchise to the point they didn't even bother releasing the PSP remake in the west. There's been a few indie games that have tried to do the whole "Persona, But Adults" and they've all failed to gain any traction. Even Atlus' other output which have adult protagonists do not do very well. I hope everyone who wanted an Adult Persona game put their money where their mouth is and bought Soul Hackers 2 and didn't help contribute to it's failure because it was what those people wanted and it flopped. It's fine if people outgrow a franchise and feel like they can no longer relate to Persona as they get older, but it's like how people expect Pokémon to 'grow up' with them. It's not the franchise's fault, it's the person. They'd probably be happier finding something else and let those of us who still love Persona and what it is to enjoy it. That being said I am worried about Persona 6 since Katsura Hashino isn't involved and fear it may go down the path other SEGA franchises have once their creator has left and they try to re-invent the franchise. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6356 |
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Not much different from the last three Persona games. Especially the part about “needing sleep”. If there is one absolute thing they can stop doing and this extends to Shin Megami Tensei. It’s the silent protagonist trope and also the pointless choice system. I’ve been playing Vengeance and it’s definitely not as brutal as SMT4 was but it of course has the aforementioned tropes predictably at play.
It’s been a while since I played it but I don’t recall the original game being too difficult or obtuse solo wise. It does however get to a point of being bleh story wise.
People don’t trash Persona for having male MCs the problem is only being allowed to play as a male character. When you’ve had 5 games and only 2 of those 5 allow you to play as a female character with the 3rd game being the first and only game to allow you to choose the gender of the MC that’s a problem, The problem with relationships is that when you have other games even those in the same genre as Persona. That let you play characters that can be straight, bi, & maybe pan. The Persona games not letting you pursue similar relationships comes off dated. So that also something with legit criticism. I won’t get into the minutiae of high schoolers dating significantly older characters but divisiveness over that isn’t entirely unreasonable given the real life problems of this. Fanservice is okay when A. It’s equal and B. It’s utilized in a proper context if you’re just doing it to do it and putting it in the most awkward of places then it becomes a problem. On the last point I would not argue (as recurring as the complaints over it is) that stereotyping gay or trans people as sexual predators is something that Persona has always been about. Nor should it be something that people try to argue “isn’t that offensive” or decrying the removal of such scenes as censorship under the pretense such scenes have some inherent value to the story. |
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