Forum - View topicThe ANN Aftershow - The Attack on Titan Ending Explained
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Everlasting Coconut
 Posts: 292 |
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It's sad that this is the last AoT podcast. I always enjoyed listening to your discussions and reading James' reviews, but I guess all good things must come to an end.
To summarize my thoughts on the finale, I'd say mostly everybody got the ending they deserved or that was appropriate for them. Zeke was pulled out of his nihilistic bubble by Armin and let Levi kill him; Levi finally fulfilled his promise to Erwin, is now retired, and no longer has to fight; Mikasa finally found the resolve to kill Eren, which is how the series was always gonna end; Annie reunited with her father and is now actively trying to make a change along with her friends, which is something her old, apathetic self never would have done; Gabi and Falco are living happily ever after; Pieck is still Best Girl. The conclusion to Levi's arc was probably my favourite, but Reiner's was great too. In season 4, we learned that he became the Armoured Titan in order to make his mother happy and that he grew up with this extreme nationalist idea that he needed to fight and die for his country in order for his life to have value. So in the finale, when he tells his mother he’s not the armoured titan anymore, it's so heartwarming to see his mother telling him that it's a relief he no longer has to fight and that he's all she ever needed. It's okay for him to live. As for Ymir, I always loved the idea of Attack on Titan becoming a story about freeing her from her torment, and while I have my reservations about the Eren/Fritz and Mikasa/Ymir parallels, I think the end to her story was a satisfying one. On that note, I was surprised by the pig scene in the anime. Her little smirk was not in the manga, but I kind of liked that change. The manga gave me the impression that she released the pigs because she felt pity for them, and then she ended up being horribly punished for that innocent act of kindness, whereas the anime gives you the impression that she released them as an act of rebellion towards her captors, just like Lynzee said. I like both versions. Anyway, in the end, almost all my problems with the finale lie in the last 30 or so minutes. I’ve already talked in another thread about how Eren killing his mom adds nothing and damages his character as well as the themes of the story, but another thing I didn’t like was the reveal that Eren planned to let 20% of humanity survive so that his friends would be seen as heroes. Now, where did that come from? Eren’s whole thing was that he was too immature to handle the idea of people existing outside the walls, since it went against his idealized view of the world. He had this temper tantrum where he wanted to wipe out all of humanity because, as Lynzee put it, he dreamed of a frontier untainted by humanity. So when did he suddenly change his mind and decide to let 20% live? And why in the world did he think the 20% would praise his friends as heroes for defeating him? In the eyes of the 20% who survived, he just confirmed their fears that Eldians are monsters capable of destroying the world by killing 80% of the global population. And I know we could just chalk it up to Eren being an idiot, but it still doesn’t line up with how his psychology and goals had been established. It feels like another unnecessary twist. As for the destiny and time travel stuff, I appreciate James for explaining it, but no matter how much you try to justify it, it will always undermine the idea that all this death and suffering was the result of Eren’s choices, and that the point would’ve gotten across better if fate hadn’t been part of the equation in the first place. I’m still seeing tweets, posts, and videos going viral on social media defending Eren, saying he had no choice, that he was trapped in a loop, that everything had already been determined, and that he tested everything he could have done. And sadly, the people who think this are not just a loud minority. Another reason I don’t like the “after-life” scene with Eren and Armin is because it was around that part where it looked like the animators just gave up. The character animation and expressions were so awkward that at times it made me cringe, and at times it made me feel detached from what was going on. The scene is also supposed to be this great moment where Eren and Armin are finally seeing all these beautiful places they always dreamed of seeing, yet that was some of the cheapest looking scenery I’ve seen in a while. Compare this night sky with this one from season 2. And just to clarify, this is not a MAPPA slander post. I believe that they did a great job with season 4, but I can’t help but wonder how the final product would have looked if they were given better working conditions. My final major complaint has to be how Historia was forgotten in this final arc. I know James and Lynzee mentioned how disappointing it was that a major character like her didn’t play a big role in the end, but what bothers me the most is how there was never any payoff to all the parallels that were established between her and Ymir. Seriously, it’s not just the imagery, it’s that her life is a parallel to Ymir’s, so you gotta wonder if there’s an alternate world where she plays a bigger part in freeing Ymir from her torment, since she’s the one who would understand her suffering the most. In the end, I came out of this finale feeling disappointed. I've been following Attack on Titan since the anime first came out over a decade ago, and these characters are all very dear to me, so it's frustrating to see the story dragged down by unnecessary twists, destiny shenanigans, and technical problems. What I will say is that I would describe this ending (and Attack on Titan as a whole) as more hopeful than nihilistic. A story with a character like Armin at its heart inevitably gives me that impression. And I know it's easy to be sad about the credits scene, but it's not all death and destruction. I see it more as a message to work towards and maintain peace for as long as possible, and to once again work towards peace once conflict erupts again (I don't believe Eldians were wiped out, since that kid at the end looks suspiciously similar to Mikasa). |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2422 Location: Germany |
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Here is the author himself saying in 2013 that he changed the ending as the original vision taken from The Mist would have upset the now quite large fanbase too much: http://yaraon.blog109.fc2.com/blog-entry-20349.html
The ending doubles down on sunshine and rainbows for the core characters, minus 2 women who died during S4 and Dr. Manhattan Eren. Not quite The Mist. Both Isayama and MAPPA (AoT S4 and Vinland Saga S2 ape shots from his films) are Zack Snyder fans so the endgame similarities of AoT and Snyder´s adjusted 3rd act of Watchmen are by design. The anime´s adjustment to the epilogue makes that piece last even longer it seems. The 9/11 helicopter attack and the cruise missile barrage are much more ambiguous than the Spirit bombers of the manga. The frankly retro-looking Cyberpunk buildings are built after the 80s to 2020s looking skyscrapers but the same multiple rocket launcher as in the manga is still seen right at the end. A model from the late 60s I think but still in use. What does any of this mean? Eh. Can´t say that any of that adjusts anything though. Deckchairs on the Titanic, etc. Krista becoming Historia is the most famous example of a change in plot. Total rando Krista became popular out of nowhere but Isayama had no big plans for her so she became a new person in every sense of the word. She is the deuteragonist of the S3 portion so even big things could change as the plot went on. Might also be why she was written out of the story after the time skip? Only Ymir knows. Anyway, all ongoing plots are always in flux even if some sort of endgame is mapped out. Which is fine! Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying. A shame we had to reach this final station though. 98% of this ride was much to my liking before the Shounen bullshit, F.A.T.E. and the weird at best implications gripped the wheel. The Before the Fall manga is solid too and I outright liked Omegaforce´s A.O.T. 2: Final Battle. Can´t turn S4 into a game though. At least we now know why Armin thanked Eren for the mass genocide and some other bits. The anime changed that scene a bit. I personally found the change even more messy and melodramatic but most manga readers didn´t it seems. Not a fan of the Schindler's List homage MAPPA inserted into the destruction porn either. An ending as all over the place and incoherent as it was 2.5 years ago and now twice revised. Anno gave Eva 2 new endings. The Eva manga even makes it 2.5 so we aren´t quite there yet. All the fire and fury of the community and not just in America (Korea really tuned on this series) was spent in spring 2021 so I get why a second controversy could be avoided. You can´t step in the same river twice! Now we wait on the Levi prequel chapter. |
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TheSleepyMonkey
Posts: 897 |
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Disagree. For starters, talking about "animators giving up" just because there's a similar recurring expression is the worst way to put it. Specially since 1. This expression is something you will constantly find Isayama doing and 2. The characters are mostly well-drawn in this sequence, the opposite of what "giving up" would be. Really, all that just sounds like nitpicking. And the backgrounds are genuinely gorgeous. The volcano one specially is mesmerizing. 
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Everlasting Coconut
Posts: 292 |
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It's not just the recurring expressions, it's their facial expression game in general. Come on now, you'll have to forgive me if things like Erwin going ":C" disrupt my immersion, or if it bothered me a little when they showed Ymir with a blank expression instead of sad and tearing up when Mikasa talked to her and her soul was finally able to pass on. On the flip side, I have immortalized Erwin's ":C" face in the form of a Whatsapp sticker that brings me joy whenever I use it, so it's not all bad 
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Average ANN enjoyer
Posts: 2 |
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Great discussion. I am really glad you guys enjoyed the ending. It's kinda funny too cause most of the time I see extreme AoT fans bashing you for not remembering a plot point from 5 or whatever years ago and yet, you guys understood the characters better than any of those so called fans. I want to give James a huge thank you for the years of dedication to the show & reviewing it.
And finally, I am seeing a lot of negativities in this thread regarding the ending. While I Don't want to quote anyone but It's actually hilarious how every single of the criticism boiled down to "it was typical shounen, so bad" even though some agreed the character resolutions were good. I just want to say to those who are dissatisfied with the ending, please give it a rewatch or move on cause let's be honest, the reason for majority of manga readers hating it was never about the actual themes rather being disappointed a certain ship didn’t happen & the mc Didn't go full h***r mode & kill everyone lol. Anyways, the past discussion from 2021 is in the internet for all to see, so it is what it is. |
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Connor Dino
Posts: 297 |
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It really isn't that negative. Especially considering past threads...I attribute this to the anime ending shifting the discourse towards a more balanced, positive direction. Thank god. If you are looking for more positivity, I would go to the final episode review thread on ANN. There is some negativity there, but it is almost entirely nonsense and easily dismissed. |
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Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1015 |
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My opinion on the ending hasn't changed:
It was perfectly fine, but, it needed more time in the oven, and by this I mean 2-3 chapters more, it wasn't that much. I also found unnecessary to kill 80% of the human population, never understood the need of that. If we take the SAME last 40 mins and translated it to the coast of the continent, before killing all that people, the ending works the same, so no idea of what was the point. |
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KaidoYuji8Shinji
Posts: 118 Location: Manchester, NH |
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I liked the ending but I can see why people don’t. I think people also didn’t love the final shift after the basement reveal. It turns into a somewhat different show after.
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