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AQuin1904



Joined: 13 Nov 2021
Posts: 270
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 12:44 pm Reply with quote
In a world where Valkyria Chronicles 4 quotes Commando, certain people really do need to rethink how they present east-west divides. A whole generation of Japanese nerds is even just as insufferable about Monty Python and the Holy Grail as the ones you all probably know locally.

Quote:
First off is the art; if the level of quality is anywhere near the Witch on the Holy Night remake, the VN will be a stunner.

Can confirm that the presentation is near-identical. (Not having the text sequestered in a little box at the bottom of the screen should become the new standard if it hasn't already.)
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RockSplash



Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Posts: 502
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 1:22 pm Reply with quote
I agree completely with this week's article. People are so obsessed with Japan being this mystical place that avoids western works, when needs are needs regardless. There is an argument in Star Wars that the newest creators are trying to copy George Lucas, when Lucas was inspired by Mobius and French comic books, samurai films, and golden age science fiction novels. I think more people need to realize how globalized Japan and the world itself is. Is there any culture that only consumes their own content? Honestly, Americans(I say as I myself am one) are famous for avoiding foreign ideas and cultures like the plague. But I hope that idea is changing, and people can realize how Jrpg should not be seen Any different from any other rpg.
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Nate148



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 521
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 1:49 pm Reply with quote
as a fyi the Tsukihime remake got split into two games this is part one part two might have our unlucky girl's route plus the sister and maid routes
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irenatheunicorn



Joined: 06 Jul 2023
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 2:24 pm Reply with quote
RockSplash wrote:
I agree completely with this week's article. People are so obsessed with Japan being this mystical place that avoids western works, when needs are needs regardless. There is an argument in Star Wars that the newest creators are trying to copy George Lucas, when Lucas was inspired by Mobius and French comic books, samurai films, and golden age science fiction novels. I think more people need to realize how globalized Japan and the world itself is. Is there any culture that only consumes their own content? Honestly, Americans(I say as I myself am one) are famous for avoiding foreign ideas and cultures like the plague. But I hope that idea is changing, and people can realize how Jrpg should not be seen Any different from any other rpg.


It sounded like the article was making the point that "Japanese weirdness" some people complain about might have been inspired by western works so complaining about Japanese works being weird might just be making fun of yourself in the end. I don't know anyone who actually gets upset if Japanese media references American movies like Star Wars or Terminator. I see more complaints when Japanese-isms pop up in western works or even Japanese works themselves like the people the article mentions when people get upset Final Fantasy or Soulslike becomes "too anime" which is obviously a dumb complaint Laughing
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MagicPolly



Joined: 26 Nov 2020
Posts: 1630
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:05 pm Reply with quote
I can't believe we're finally getting localized Tsukihime, we're one step closer to localized FSN now
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 642
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 3:54 pm Reply with quote
If anyone tries to act like JRPGs haven't/shouldn't ever be "influenced by the West," here's the two easiest counter-points in my mind:
1) Yuji Horii, creator of Dragon Quest, has openly admitted that his primary influences on DQ's design were Ultima and Wizardry.
2) The game I see generally pointed to as "the first RPG developed in Japan" is The Black Onyx, developed by Bullet-Proof Software. The lead designer on the game and founder of the company? Henk Rogers, a man who was neither born nor raised in Japan.

On the Tsukihime remake, it bears mentioning that "A piece of blue glass moon" is specifically a remake of the Inner Routes; the Outer Routes and Satsuki's Route will be in "The other side of red garden," which currently only has one teaser trailer and no release window. So Sacchin's gonna have to stay sad a little while longer.
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Cho_Desu



Joined: 27 Dec 2022
Posts: 242
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 7:58 pm Reply with quote
DRWii wrote:

2) The game I see generally pointed to as "the first RPG developed in Japan" is The Black Onyx, developed by Bullet-Proof Software. The lead designer on the game and founder of the company? Henk Rogers, a man who was neither born nor raised in Japan.


And then he'd go on to acquire the needed licensing rights from the Soviet Union in order for Nintendo to release Tetris on the Game Boy.
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2023 9:21 pm Reply with quote
irenatheunicorn wrote:
RockSplash wrote:
I agree completely with this week's article. People are so obsessed with Japan being this mystical place that avoids western works, when needs are needs regardless. There is an argument in Star Wars that the newest creators are trying to copy George Lucas, when Lucas was inspired by Mobius and French comic books, samurai films, and golden age science fiction novels. I think more people need to realize how globalized Japan and the world itself is. Is there any culture that only consumes their own content? Honestly, Americans(I say as I myself am one) are famous for avoiding foreign ideas and cultures like the plague. But I hope that idea is changing, and people can realize how Jrpg should not be seen Any different from any other rpg.


It sounded like the article was making the point that "Japanese weirdness" some people complain about might have been inspired by western works so complaining about Japanese works being weird might just be making fun of yourself in the end. I don't know anyone who actually gets upset if Japanese media references American movies like Star Wars or Terminator. I see more complaints when Japanese-isms pop up in western works or even Japanese works themselves like the people the article mentions when people get upset Final Fantasy or Soulslike becomes "too anime" which is obviously a dumb complaint Laughing


Six of one, half-a-dozen of the other. Although I didn't set out to make the point RockSplash made, he does make a good one: there's a ton of weird xenophilia towards Japan as an "isolated nation unspoilt by Western influence". And this is just pants (besides, when these people say "Western", what they mean is "Jewish"). Even in anime, you see stuff like G Gundam and its totally underappreciated references to French New Wave cinema--or, if you wanna be a bit less hoity-toity than I am, look at PROMARE and how the Fire Force chief and the chief of ICE are supposed to reference Vin Diesel and Dwayne Johnson. Hell, look at how much Kojima hobknobs with American filmmakers and actors (it's not just for the free weed, lol).

On the other hand, yeah, Irena is making the point I had originally set out to make: so much of what people easily slam as "Anime weirdness" has its roots in... the same stuff that formed the bedrock of American pop culture.

Nevertheless: we're in an era where this line of thinking is becoming quickly recognized as bunk, and more and more people can comfortably and openly proclaim their love of cute cozy farm sims without being considered weird.
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DRWii



Joined: 16 May 2007
Posts: 642
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 12:27 am Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
there's a ton of weird xenophilia towards Japan as an "isolated nation unspoilt by Western influence". And this is just pants (besides, when these people say "Western", what they mean is "Jewish").

While it's easily debunked, I was reminded that "Japanese-Jewish common ancestry theory" is a thing, so now I have the mental image of an anti-Semitic otaku seeing those five words and having a quiet mental breakdown. Thanks for that bit of amusement.
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i got the shivers!



Joined: 30 Nov 2022
Posts: 118
Location: Brazil
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:36 am Reply with quote
Quote:
We're plugging through some of the side-quests in Xenoblade 3 now that we're out of the more "urgent" parts of the story. Also, I didn't know this, but apparently, is Juniper supposed to be non-binary? I never even noticed, but that's nice. I wish there were more to go on with Juniper because their story seemed a bit rushed, but I appreciate the effort on Monolith's behalf. Also, can we talk about Juniper's resemblance to Girl_DM?? Because I've never seen anyone else point it out, and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


I'm not too familiar with the term non-binary and what all it includes but if you are asking if they're one of those characters where their gender is unknown then that is correct. They are like Najimi from Komi-san or Crona from Soul Eater in that it's never revealed to the audience and we are left to wonder. Even the game itself is coded to hide the gender funnily enough while everyone else is given either male or female tags.
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Zimmer



Joined: 08 Jul 2015
Posts: 201
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:13 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I think it's important to remember that the folks making stuff in Japan aren't just huge weebs
I mean, a Japanese person can't be a weeb. Yes, yes, I'm aware of how the definition has slid, and I know what you mean, but I still hate the term.

Quote:
sit down, "there was no Tsukihime anime isn't funny anymore
Big agree.

AQuin1904 wrote:
Can confirm that the presentation is near-identical. (Not having the text sequestered in a little box at the bottom of the screen should become the new standard if it hasn't already.)
https://vndb.org/g43
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 28 Oct 2018
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 3:57 am Reply with quote
i got the shivers! wrote:
Quote:
We're plugging through some of the side-quests in Xenoblade 3 now that we're out of the more "urgent" parts of the story. Also, I didn't know this, but apparently, is Juniper supposed to be non-binary? I never even noticed, but that's nice. I wish there were more to go on with Juniper because their story seemed a bit rushed, but I appreciate the effort on Monolith's behalf. Also, can we talk about Juniper's resemblance to Girl_DM?? Because I've never seen anyone else point it out, and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.


I'm not too familiar with the term non-binary and what all it includes but if you are asking if they're one of those characters where their gender is unknown then that is correct. They are like Najimi from Komi-san or Crona from Soul Eater in that it's never revealed to the audience and we are left to wonder. Even the game itself is coded to hide the gender funnily enough while everyone else is given either male or female tags.


No, that's not what "non-binary" means. Non-binary means you don't identify as either specifically or exclusively masculine or feminine. It's not that people don't know whether they're a boy or a girl, because the character wouldn't identify as either in the first place. Other characters also make sure to use they/them pronouns for Juniper. I hadn't noticed that the first time around until someone else pointed it out.
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wolf10



Joined: 23 Jan 2016
Posts: 931
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 7:23 am Reply with quote
FinalVentCard wrote:
Other characters also make sure to use they/them pronouns for Juniper. I hadn't noticed that the first time around until someone else pointed it out.
Not to undermine the earlier point, but actually nobody ever knowingly uses pronouns for Juniper. Everyone in Colony Tau flips over pronouns rather gracefully the entire time, usually substituting an epithet for the Colony Tau commander wherever a pronoun might be used. The whole "they/them" misunderstanding is primarily from one screenshot taken out of context (likely to prove a point) where Juniper is name-dropped in the same box as a plural "they" referring to Colony Tau, and also after that very first combat encounter (where the ambiguous "they" isn't restricted to Juniper alone). Not trying to invalidate anyone's identity, just a gentle reminder that "no pronouns" is also a legitimate pronoun preference (that nobody respects, apparently).

Personally, I think Juniper is just too slippery for either the gender binary or the binary-nonbinary binary.
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AiddonValentine



Joined: 07 Aug 2006
Posts: 2359
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 1:26 pm Reply with quote
wolf10 wrote:
FinalVentCard wrote:
Other characters also make sure to use they/them pronouns for Juniper. I hadn't noticed that the first time around until someone else pointed it out.
Not to undermine the earlier point, but actually nobody ever knowingly uses pronouns for Juniper. Everyone in Colony Tau flips over pronouns rather gracefully the entire time, usually substituting an epithet for the Colony Tau commander wherever a pronoun might be used. The whole "they/them" misunderstanding is primarily from one screenshot taken out of context (likely to prove a point) where Juniper is name-dropped in the same box as a plural "they" referring to Colony Tau, and also after that very first combat encounter (where the ambiguous "they" isn't restricted to Juniper alone). Not trying to invalidate anyone's identity, just a gentle reminder that "no pronouns" is also a legitimate pronoun preference (that nobody respects, apparently).

Personally, I think Juniper is just too slippery for either the gender binary or the binary-nonbinary binary.


Juniper is enby. Even their voice actor is enby. Hell, the game's code reveals they're enby as there are gender values for each character. Men are 0, women are 1, Juniper is a 2. Which is very funny as that is non-binary computer coding. They made a pun! So yes, it's not up for debate, Juniper is enby.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2436
PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2023 2:40 pm Reply with quote
AiddonValentine wrote:
Juniper is enby. Even their voice actor is enby. Hell, the game's code reveals they're enby as there are gender values for each character. Men are 0, women are 1, Juniper is a 2. Which is very funny as that is non-binary computer coding. They made a pun! So yes, it's not up for debate, Juniper is enby.


On the one hand, I think it's really cool they got an enby to voice the character and I'm also a certified lover of good puns, and that sounds like a good pun. On the other hand... that still sounds like a stretch. I think what people here are saying isn't that Juniper isn't non-binary, but that the clues for the character themself are ambiguous enough to allow room for interpretation. Meaning it's valid to consider them non-binary and valid to think of them in other ways, too. The coding just means "not 0 or 1", since the character in question was obvious not meant to fit either mold.
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