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Mouth flaps in anime.


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motherboyxx



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:51 pm Reply with quote
I have been noticing lately that dubs i watch from netflix will occasionally get pixilated around the moving mouths of speaking characters on dubs. Is this just an artifact of my screen or do dub companies use computers to make the mouths move more congruently with the dialogue?
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Veoryn87



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 808
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:53 pm Reply with quote
I've never noticed this with dubs on dvd or on tv. Maybe it's a netflix thing.
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Murasakisuishou



Joined: 22 Jun 2006
Posts: 1469
Location: NE Ohio
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:01 pm Reply with quote
Are you watching on your TV or on your computer, and if it's your computer, what player do you use? I have that problem with motion in VLC Media Player sometimes, and I think there's a filter or something that fixes it.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:06 pm Reply with quote
You are probably noticing the lines which are artifacts from interlacing. Interlacing lines can be eliminated with a deinterlacing filter, which if you are using VLC should be somewhere under settings, preferences, video, filters.

Other programs it'll be located in different places. Experiment with different values to get what you like.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:53 pm Reply with quote
Veoryn87 wrote:
I've never noticed this with dubs on dvd or on tv. Maybe it's a netflix thing.


I have a Netflix account myself and I've never had this problem myself. Nor with any of my store bought dvds except with the occasional bad dvd but in those cases it's more than just pixels around the mouth that's messed up.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 3:21 am Reply with quote
No reason it should do that on dubs. Aside from a few rare examples; dubs use the same video as the sub, only the sound track is changed. In most cases if it does use a different video track it does so only for the credits and opener.
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Randall Miyashiro



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2451
Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:14 am Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
You are probably noticing the lines which are artifacts from interlacing. Interlacing lines can be eliminated with a deinterlacing filter, which if you are using VLC should be somewhere under settings, preferences, video, filters.

Here is a good description of interlacing issues that explains it far clearer than I can.

This is something that was really noticeable when I went HD. I think it was most noticeable on Pioneer's Last Exile release. I ended up getting a DVDO VP30 along with the add on card which corrected this as well as did a much better job scaling from NTSC abd PAL to HD compared to my OPPO. You can actually toggle between the ABT102's movie and film modes and odd or even fields as well as set the processing delay (for video games) which is directly proportionate with the video quality. Many of the newer televisions, receivers and high definition players are including better video processor chips to convert standard definition into HD. I still prefer a stand alone processor since there is much more flexibility in correcting for overscan, centering issues, and other calibration.
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Veoryn87



Joined: 14 Nov 2006
Posts: 808
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:23 am Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
No reason it should do that on dubs. Aside from a few rare examples; dubs use the same video as the sub, only the sound track is changed. In most cases if it does use a different video track it does so only for the credits and opener.


My roommate use to think they reanimated the mouths for dubs. I had to explain to him that they don't. Took me a while to get him to believe me.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6896
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:12 pm Reply with quote
Veoryn87 wrote:
Keonyn wrote:
No reason it should do that on dubs. Aside from a few rare examples; dubs use the same video as the sub, only the sound track is changed. In most cases if it does use a different video track it does so only for the credits and opener.


My roommate use to think they reanimated the mouths for dubs. I had to explain to him that they don't. Took me a while to get him to believe me.
Indeed they don't re-animate the mouths, they just try as much as possible during the dub recording process to make the lines match the mouth movements. Which is something that the Japanese tracks don't do, due to the time-crunch that anime is produced in -- Japanese VAs record while seeing rough-cut animation or storyboards, so when the animation is finished, the mouth movements may or may not match up with the spoken lines. Apparently the Japanese fanbase has been trained over the years and decades not to expect lip flaps to match, so they don't make as big a deal out of it as we do.
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motherboyxx



Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 18
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:31 pm Reply with quote
interesting. Well i watch it on my cyberlink dvd player, and it is not something that is distracting just slightly noticeable.

Since they dont reanimate the mouths do you guys thing it would be a good thing if they could or did. This would allow slightly more effective translation (especially of jokes). Of course they could also take it too far and bastardize the audio.

And the last question is...if they don’t mess with video at all then why do so many shows have english signs in the background, or even on a paper a character is reading (i am thinking of trigun)?
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TheAnimeJudge



Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 85
Location: WORST TOPIC MAKER =D in Chicago!
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:06 pm Reply with quote
It's definitely the company that lisenced the anime's fault o.O They would probably fix up alot of things just to distribute it out in the language they're fixing it up to match with... ANd i just hate when they fix it all up, it messes up alot of things... Well, if whenever buy any Dvd's i never really play them in the new dubbed english, i rather go for the old japanese Mad
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:32 pm Reply with quote
motherboyxx wrote:
And the last question is...if they don’t mess with video at all then why do so many shows have english signs in the background, or even on a paper a character is reading (i am thinking of trigun)?
Because in many cases, those signs were in English to begin with. Like in FMA, there are many documents with random English writing, but the show was actually animated that way, as seen in the TV-fansub version. Funimation didn't change anything. Ever notice how many OP/ED songs have English (or "Engrish") lyrics in them? It's because English functions as an exotic, "cool" language, and the background signs work on the same principle. Often they act as indicators of foreignness or at least "non-Japanese-ness," as with Trigun. The vast majority of anime released on DVD-only (that is, anime that didn't have a VHS release in the 1990s or early 2000s) do not have any "overlays" to replace Japanese text with English.
TheAnimeJudge wrote:
It's definitely the company that licensed the anime's fault o.O They would probably fix up a lot of things just to distribute it out in the language they're fixing it up to match with... And I just hate when they fix it all up, it messes up a lot of things...
Did you not read my other post where I explained how licensing/dubbing companies do not change anything in the video for mouth movements? Rolling Eyes When they're recording, they just work with what's already in the video to make the mouth flaps match as much as possible.
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ManOfRust



Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 1935
Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:26 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Because in many cases, those signs were in English to begin with. Like in FMA, there are many documents with random English writing, but the show was actually animated that way, as seen in the TV-fansub version.

If you pause the DVD to really look at some of these things written in English they can be pretty funny. It especially seems to be true in some of the older shows where sometimes I think they just grabbed whatever they could find whether or not they knew what it said or had anything to do with the anime.

For example, I noticed in Garaga that some of the English writing that came up on computer screens appeared to be the text from some Ford brochures. It was kind of funny to see.
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Aromatic Grass



Joined: 31 Dec 2003
Posts: 2424
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:39 pm Reply with quote
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Pityless/Envy



Joined: 08 Aug 2007
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 7:05 pm Reply with quote
Aromatic Grass wrote:


That's awesome!
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