Forum - View topicHand-painted vs. Computer colored animation
|
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
ame_de_verseau
Posts: 21 |
|
|||||
|
disclaimer***I'm scared to post anything in this forum because people want it done right...so i'm just going to try to do my best and please be kind!!! i'm not trying to break any rules....or anything..****
Now. Here's my Issue. I cannot STAND how all anime is currently colored in using computers. I don't like the Look. I think that it only helps animation studios create more crap faster. It makes it really hard for me to stay focused on any of the anime's i watch. Like, i really enjoy watching Eva or Sailor Moon, His and Her Circumstances or CoboyBebop because i like the way it looks the colors and even when the drawing is poor..i still perfer the way the colors look. And i feel that it takes away from the viewing experience because the art is so simple. Like Bleach for example. The dvds have really awesome artwork on it...but the epsiodes...are so poor. Ovbiously i have exceptions...like Chobits, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fruits Basket. But those had good stories and interesting characters to make me over look it. I put in my NEwtype dvd and end up watching usually 2 or 3 minutes of each episode because i can't get into it's presentation. I guess what i'm trying to say is that i think hand drawn/colored anime is just more enjoyable. Too many times i see the anime adaptations of several mangas strip down the style of the manga so much that everything looks the same. Bland. unispired. it looses something in the process. i think that computers are ripping the soul out of animation. Which is not to say that it can't create some good art...but how many shows have the budgets to do that? Does anybody feel the same way? Is this even a major issue for you in the animes you watch? Last edited by ame_de_verseau on Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
|
|||||
|
Why are you comparing Bebop to Bleach? It would be like me comparing DBZ to Seirei no Moribito. Comparing a high budget 26 episode series to a long running shounen series is just trying to tilt the argument in your favor.
|
||||||
|
||||||
Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
|
|||||
|
I don't know, I think there's enough variance in the styles they can use in computer animation and it ultimately lends itself to greater artistic diversity. While sure, it does help some studios churn out more garbage faster, it also gives artists more room to be creative, so it can go both ways. Besides, a lot of anime has been colored on computers for years, a lot longer than people think.
Now the reason something like Bleach looks so bad is because it's a huge series so they have to stretch their budget further. Truth is if they did it hand drawn it would probably be far worse as that budget wouldn't even get them as far as doing it on the computer does. I prefer the styles that appeal to me most, whether hand drawn or done on computers it all comes down to the talent behind the productions. Yes, a lot more crap has been churned out in recent years but you could just as easily attribute that to an influx of fans and an increase in overseas profits(though that looks to be taking a dive lately). |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
|
|||||
No denying that but the problem is that the people looking back through nostaglia tinted glasses, are forgetting a lot of crap was churned out back than as well. Macross had many different animation teams working on it and some where nowhere near as skilled as the others, there's an epiosde of MSG that Tomino was too ashamed to release in America due to animation errors, DBZ animation is up and down so much etc and this is some of the good stuff from than. Last edited by Westlo on Thu Nov 15, 2007 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||||
|
The problem you (thread starter) have is NOT about hand drawn or computer animation as your title suggests; rather, it's about color designation. The foreground of most new titles (including all of those you've mentioned) are still hand drawn on digital board or on paper followed by scanners.
The importance of color designation has often neglected. Compare the original broadcasted edition and the video release of the infamous ep. 4 of Lost Universe at here and here and you'll see the significance.
That's the key. In fact a piece of decent computer animation (not hand drawn animation with computer-assisted coloring) costs more than hand drawn ones. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ame_de_verseau
Posts: 21 |
|
|||||
i'm not denying that. i almost said that in my first post...that it seems there was a golden era back in the day because we got such a small portion of a decade of animation. the crap got filtered through.
Bleach was the first thing that came to mind. Secondly I did not just say Cowboy Bebop. I mentioned Sailor Moon and among it's 200 episodes it had maybe entire seasons worth of crappy animation. but i'm not just refering to the way something is drawn. I'm saying that i would rather watch the crappy old stuff than the crappy new stuff because i perfer the look of something that has been painted to something that a computer has colored. Pretear was only 12 episodes and that has some horrible animation also. That was the other series that i was trying to think of the name of but couldnt when i originally posted it. But i don't really want to spam with a long list of all the other animes that fit this description. I would rather watch Dragon Ball than Bleach just because of the way they color animation cells. and those are similar long running series. And both have unspectacular animation. I just feel like you're really missing my point. |
||||||
|
||||||
HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
|
|||||
No, we get your point, we just think you are wrong. Sure, you can pick out some shows that had crappy animation, but plenty of shows in the past did as well. It's not inherent in how its drawn, its a matter of skill and budget. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16974 |
|
|||||
Key word being skill. It doesn't matter how much of a budget you have if you're Joe Blow the schmuck. If you don't have any skill no amount of budget will make up for that. Likewise a true master or something with real skill can take a limited budget and still work wonders. I am of the mind set that neither hand drawn, or computer done animation is inherently better then the other. Both have their pros and cons and strengths and weaknesses. It al comes down to personal taste really. If you prefer hand drawn that's fine but don't demean another type of animation simply because you don't like the look of it. That doesn't take away any good qualities it has simply because the look isn't to your liking. As for the amount of crap out now, well look at the demand for new titles. A far cry from the 80's or 90's. So as the demand rises studios have to produce more shows more quickly so of course you run the risk of more crap in the process. There are also plenty of crap titles that are hand drawn mind you. |
||||||
|
||||||
Ultenth
 Posts: 229 Location: Washington State |
|
|||||
|
This reeks of how people comment on how they prefer older music instead of newer music. I don't think there is anything wrong with liking older stuff, it's when you take the mindset of "the these whipper snappers are making now-a-days ain't even music" or "dvd's sound too clean, I prefer old LP's where the scratches made it sound more real" or something like that. Which is essentially what he is saying, that he prefers the hand draw coloring where there was more imperfections which made it seem to have more color depth. That's fine, you prefer the older animation style, but even in your "golden era" the style you are imagining wasn't omnipresent like you seem to think. There was some anime that was hand colored very well, and it was good, but there was loads of crap that was hand-colored that was complete crap because the artists sucked at coloring or were just lazy.
Yes, computer aided coloring tends to use less overall colors than the popular high budget older anime which is most of what you've seen from the mid-80's to late 90's. Very little of the crap stuff made it's way over here, so you have this incorrect assumption that all animation from back then was of that quality. It's like people that talk about golden era's of music and movies and point out a list of all the classics, but forget to mention the buttload of complete crap that was created back then too. There is still plenty of animation being made that is very well drawn, most of them being big budget popular shows, or ones translated from popular manga. If you lived somewhere that anime wasn't very popular and didn't speak english I'd wager that you wouldn't notice any difference in era's really, because you would only get the high budget popular anime translated into your language, so you'd still only be getting the same select segment of anime. Personally I have a much bigger problem with the massive influx of lazy animation techniques like constant looping and panning, which are being used over and over in order to truely cut costs, that is much more prevalent and destructive to (at least for me) the anime watching experience than having the color vary not quite enough in a character's hair. If you want to know what is allowing the massive influx of anime creation that is often complete crap it's lazy animation, not computer aided coloring. And even still, if you look around there are plenty of resources to be used to pick your way through a lot of the trash and find the few hidden gems, just like with any artform, whether it be music or US movies or paintings or whatever. But with more overall animation being created, it's more likely to see studios try crazy stuff like Moyashimon, which means that I'm more likely to see something new and exciting, instead of the same old harem/osananajimi romances , shounen battle of the week or magical girl shows. |
||||||
|
||||||
Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
|
|||||
|
Well I guess it's a matter of opinion I love the increased variety colors that they can use with computer animation. For instance:
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
|
|||||
You didn't realize that foregrounds and backgrounds of most animation were drawn by different teams of staff with different tools, did you? 
|
||||||
|
||||||
DragonsRevenge
 Posts: 1150 |
|
|||||
And in the end, isn't that what matters? |
||||||
|
||||||
Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
|
|||||
|
Regarding what was said earlier by everyone, I agree with some points and disagree with others, but I don't think I should bother commenting on every little thing.
Instead, I'd just like to point out some new things or different viewpoints that haven't been said. The thread starter has a problem with computer-colored modern anime, however exactly what he fundamentally dislikes about it, even he may not know. There are other issues to computer-colored modern anime besides just the fact that the colors tend to be a different palette (brighter and more consistent, usually...not necessarily a good or bad thing). Most modern anime has no jitter, and therefore in some sense a lower resolution than classic anime. Depending on the method by which the modern anime was developed, the resolution may be more or less. Some older or cheaper modern anime do not properly anti-alias the image so the drawings look "harsh". Other modern anime may be better and even use gradiented lighting effects, but many of these still are done aliased in a sense, where the gradiented lighting itself can look discrete and "harsh". Another side-effect of modern methods is that it is more tempting and easier for low-quality animes to be produced, in my opinion. The lowest-quality animes of today are far worse than the lowest-quality animes of the 90's. The average-quality anime today might even be lower quality than the average-quality anime of the 90's. Most people probably don't agree, but that is my feeling. To me, the modern way looks better, and the same goes for most people. This also one small reason (out of several) why lower-quality animes can be more successful these days...if they 'naturally' look slightly better, the economic temptation will be to use less resources on them, so that the end result looks average and acceptable to the typical viewer. But for viewers who aren't taken in with the modern look, this results in a substandard-looking show. I'd like to suggest to the thread starter to try watching a couple episodes of Godannar. It's modern and computer colored but was produced with unusual methods, retaining classic analog jitter. The animation is also very high quality and doesn't have the cheap feel of many modern anime. But other classic effects such as dust, grain and composite video artifacts are not present in Godannar. I don't know what you will think of this look, but I think it'd be something you should check out. (and don't watch a crappy quality fansub or something, watch the actual DVD) |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ame_de_verseau
Posts: 21 |
|
|||||
|
The "poster" is a she. Secondly i already said that i know that Anime of the 90s isn't the golden Era like many assume because back then we were only getting the most popular animes and not all the crappy ones. I'm repeating myself and it's slightly annoying.
Thirdly when i wrote "hand drawn" i meant also "hand painted". I don't like the way computer colored animation looks and you're telling me i'm wrong? I don't think it looks better, i think it looks cheaper, in most situations. I also already said that i know that there's plenty of crap animation that is done without the use of computer. And yes, while it's story that Should be the most important the animation is part of the story telling. And this issue we're discussing distracts me too much to get into most animes. Like in the Chevalier d'eon. They have beautifully recreated France and it's castles. But Watch D'aon walk through them...or have the camera cricle around him while he's standing in one of them...he stands out so much from the background it's like Watching finger puppets moving infront of a painted background. It doesn't flow well. Most anime's have a shiny, glossy appearance to them and it's opaque. that's the word. There's an absence of light in them, it looks dull and dreary or you get the girlie kid's show and really colorful but it's like comparing a neon sign to a rainbow. I thought that the animation for the new Simpson's movie...while the line work was superior to the show, i didn't like the cell shading they used. I thought it was ugly. They should have animated it traditionally. I read in Anime Insider Issue 45 that Hayao Miyazaki was going to "return to hand-drawn production and use materials not often found in modern animation: watercolors and pastels.These require much time and skill to use, but result in a unique and gentle look." So, part of my reason of this post was to see if there were any like-minded individuals, based on those that posted it would appear that not many agree with me. I guess i'll just have to settle with being in Miyazaki's minority. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Kruszer
Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
|
|||||
There're really only random examples of modern computer assisted/animated stuff that I think looks fantastic in reguards to the colors used anyway. Yes, I do read the encyclopedia Mr. Enclycopedia Editor sir, and whether it's the background or the foreground everything is very well done in Blue Drop and Black Lagoon. Last edited by Kruszer on Thu Nov 15, 2007 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group