Forum - View topicOf maids, robots, childhood friends, and tsundere...?
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Wu Ming
Posts: 113 |
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I think i've hit them all. Those are the general main categories for female characters in anime who grab the attention of the male viewer.
And I wonder why that is the case. So, if anyone here has ever fond any of those categories to be appealing could you say a few words as to why and perhaps name an example or two. From my own humble and confused perspective, 1.) Maids - I don't get. I really really really do not get it. Having been dragged to a Maid Cafe in Akihabara by my friends, i still don't get it. I wouldn't even know who to pin as the example of this category. 2.) Robots - kind of a misleading category. Sometimes they are actual robots, but other times they might be extremely repressed women who speak softly and in an almost halting monotone saying things like, "Although i'm not human, and may never understand you, i only wish to be by your side." Or something like that. Rei Ayanami from Evangelion is probably the most famous example of this category. I could swear she's may as well be the sister of Haruhi Suzumiya's Yuki Nagato. 3.) Childhood Friends. They are a fact of life in any slice of life anime that takes place in modern times. Like Robots, Childhood Friends is a wide category ranging from the "Girl Next Door" to the "Promised Girl from my Past" to even the "Not By Blood" related sister/cousin for those who like that sort of thing (frankly it disturbs me). So, the typical catchphrase would be like ummm, "ね, ね, we used to come to this lake a lot when we were younger. I always thought those days would go on forever." Usually that's followed by a big old Blush. The reason i don't get why this category would be appealing is well, i mean it seems pretty normal. If you stage an anime with a high school its exepcted that you'd have some childhood friends around. It comes with the territory like teachers or school bullies. So why the emphasis? Its hard to pick a good person for this one, perhaps i'll just go with a popular choice and say "Uguuuu" letting Ayu Tsukimiya of Kanon fame take the crown. 4.) Tsundere Old school Tsundere used to be a woman who was bitter or harsh on the outside but ever so slowly got around to warming up to the character exposing the "deredere" face of the personality. New Tsundere just looks like a girl with a severe mental disorder - bipolar depression. Now I have to be upfront, i know someone who matches the description of a tsundere. And yes, she's rather fun to watch with her boyfriend. From a very safe distance. But why the archetype would become an object of affection, just really doesn't register. As for the model Tsundere. We all know who that is, - "Urusai Urusai Urusai!" 
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eyeresist
 Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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Who says they especially grab the male viewer's attention, apart from the fact that they're virtually ubiquitous? It's not as if these types are featured because male viewers got together and organised a letter campaign. Generally, if something is common in anime, it's because someone did it well once, in the past, and everybody copied them, turning it into a genre. Eventually, out of boredom as much as anything else, the animators make the stereotypes more and more extreme. There are also more realistic girls in anime, but they don't stand out as a sub-genre precisely because they are so regular. But I guess we could also talk about the basic appeal of each of these types: Maids: they are friendly and yet very formal, which means you don't need to worry about where you stand. The uniforms have a doll-like appeal which girls like too (so I believe). Robots: the robotic or cold girl is mysterious, because you don't know what's going on under the surface. Well, these days you can usually guess, because it's become such a cliche. Also, robots don't make much in the way of emotional demands. Plus, robots are cool! Childhood Friends: as with the Maid-type, there is a feeling of security, as contact has already been established and doesn't need to be bravely attempted. It also touches on sentimentality for the past, which is a popular emotion in Japan. Tsundere: well... who knows? I guess living with an abusive psycho is always exciting, at least. Plus, again, you know where you stand (in a long queue, on a hot day, being repeatedly punched in the back). Note: I don't recall ever actually seeing an anime where the tsundere eventually turned out to be a nice person. |
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RedLeader
 Posts: 310 |
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There's only ONE kind of girl that attracts MY attention! Naked!
 [RIMSHOT] Thank you, thank you! I'm here all weekend!
Honestly, though, I don't get the attraction to these types myself. I'd say it has something to do with Moe but I don't even undestand the DICTIONARY definition of THAT to begin with so...!
Personally, I prefer female characters that are nice and don't seek to completely destroy all males around them at any given chance. Really, the only one in that set of categories where I actually like a character like that is R. Dorothy Wayneright from Big O, whom obviously falls into the Robot/Maid combo. And I guess a big part of that IS the mysteriousness of her character. She acts cold and emotionless for almost the complete duration of the series only showing hints of emotion when she's with Professor Wayneright at the beginning, later on with the mutant cat, Pero, and at the end, in the final scene. I think she genuinely likes Roger but she holds back her true self because she can logically see no future between them (not to mention legitimate competition between her and Angel). It would've been a nice subject to explore in a 3rd season, if only AS wasn't so idiotic...
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DomFortress
 Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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The thing is I find these female archetypes in anime have one thing in common; they are stuck in one status of identity crisis or another:
As to why there are those who find these female archetypes attractive, well perhaps that they too are the other "damaged goods". In a sense that their own status complement one another. Personally, I like the old-school Tsundere type girl. In a sense that although she proves to be a challenge, I can at least count on the fact that she's sane. |
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eyeresist
Posts: 995 Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney) |
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LOL, I thought you were going to say, "I can at least count on the fact that she's a girl." |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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I'd argue that Taiga from Toradora is what you'd call "old school" and is more a model tsundere for me...
Regardless, all those stereotypes are made to cater to the public. The tsundere are "exciting", as eyeresist put it, they are at least out of the ordinary (how many people can say they've met one, in the classic sense, irl?) and thus contribute to the escapist value of the series (which is why people like them, including myself). Maids have submissive potential, childhood friends are cute (but personally, they just piss me off, so it depends on the viewer)... While I'd agree with the identity disorder analogy, I think we'd find much more direct analogies with a Freudian approach to the reasons why people like them  (I'm really not qualified to talk about psychology in-depth, but I imagine that some explanations can be found)
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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Mind if I ask why you threw me in this basket of nonsense? If you think any of those is what attracts me to anime, it's time to change your list. First, there's cost. Biggest factor of my anime purchase. Synopsis, information, reviews, and opinions matter not. Prices grab my attention and blind buying ensues. Which, quite honestly, has worked out rather well for me. Yes, a few duds here and there, but if I were to leave my purchasing up to a list like this, I'd be out of anime in two minutes. Second, there's art. The series could have the best damn story ever written, but if my eyes puke at every frame offered to me, it's over for that series. Anime has always been about art for me. The story, especially good ones, are just a bonus. Note: Kyoto Animation = purchase. Best. Anime. Studio. On. Earth. Finally, there's me bucking the trend against this new level of genre labeling. For me, there are only four genres in anime "Mecha", "Magical Girl", "Action", and "Pot Luck". That's it. This crap of adding more descriptive genre labeling can easily be stripped and thrown into the classes above. This, if anything, will prove anime hasn't changed much in the decades I've been watching it. As I've said before, Every story has been told. It's how these stories are retold that makes a difference. I'm sorry fans of today, but your attitude just blows in this regard. While I'm happy you are watching it, this pathetic whining of sub genre classification and saying "OMTehG! Everything's teh f****ing same!!" obviously shows you're new to anime because every decade in anime had its "Flavor of the Month", all starting with this thing we label as "Mecha". So take no offense if I jump out of this basket. I prefer to march at my own beat when spending my money. I'll read your opinions, but don't be surprised if I don't use them to make my next purchase unless they're out of context of this new labeling. To give you an example, Blood- quipped a remark about adding a name to a website for Hell Girl. That was all it took to make this a purchase for me. No "moe", "fanservice", "maids", "robots", "tsundere", etc. Just a simple plot element on sending people to hell. Score. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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I don't understand why maids are so popular either.
If one of them is my type that would be the robot, or android to be more specific. After watching Eve no Jikan I was able to see it in a much clearer way, that a relationship with a robot wouldn't be so bad. But it's not like I have any intentions of going all otaku over android genre, that was just a thought I had. Tsundere types normally annoy me, a lot. I wouldn't want a woman punching me, nor would I want to punch one. Childhood friends are also in the annoying category for me. If you find a girl you like, you're still stuck to your childhood friend, and that sucks. Linebarrels of Iron was a fine example. Last edited by egoist on Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15576 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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You probably could include magical girlfriend/bride, you know the type that for some reason have been forced to live with the guy for some magical reason. Examples Include Ah! My Goddess, Kannagi, Seto no Hanayome, Macademi Wasshoi, To Aru Majustsu no Index, Inukami and Tayutama.
The maid thing I find creepy sometimes, makes me wonder if the bult of those fans have master servant fantisies. Robot girls, well the one that comes most to mind is Chii from Chobits. Before seeing Chobits I thought the idea was creepy in how could a relationship work with a man made thing. Chobits does a good job at looking at it, first might get turned off by the fact robot girl is naked a lot, but the show looks at it in both lights and it is quite sweet. Also me being a quite person I like the quite girl. Childhood friends are nice, though I don't know a lot about since I have moved every few years. It often is a cliche that the childhood friend wins, I seem to remember Shufle spoiler[when we find childhood information]. Though also often the cchildhood friend misses out even though they are a good choice because of the new flavour coming along. I just figured out the other day that I actualy had a tsundere girlfriend when I was younger, actualy felt a bit unfair almost being bullied when in front of others. Maybe the tsundere is attractive because it is either a diamond among the rough or that the person had to work at. People also probably like that the girl is both a strong individual, but also has a weak spot where is almost required blushing andtrying to deny their weakness. That and some people are masochist. |
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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And since I happen to have courage, the ability to love and be loved, and the love of learning as part of my core character strength. I find myself prefer a challenging relationship with a girl, as oppose to a crazy one with someone that's abusive to herself and/or others:
EDIT: as an afterthought, I should give an example of an old-school tsundere anime girl which I find to be challenging; this particular scene with Kaname Chidori from Full Metal Panic! The Second Raid (TV) is my definition of a challenging relationship. |
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Wu Ming
Posts: 113 |
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Lol. I can't get that imagine out of my head. That pretty much summarizes how i view new tsundere types. I suppose the appeal can be made for tsundere-types as "exciting," the kind of exciting you also experience like when you go sky diving only to find out your parachute doesn't work.
"Damaged Goods," i like that theory. I shall lay the blame for this whole mess at the feet of Neon Genesis Evangelion. To paraphrase one forum member, its the case study for why "damaged goods" are attractive. That and it does have a Robot and a Tsundere.
We have similar taste then. Old-School Tsundere is just a woman or girl who has a strong exterior when confronting the world and a rich inner life. That's pretty normal really.
Yeah, its the "Promised Girl." Or "The One." That's also been pretty popular as of late hasn't it? There was one other category i wanted to add, but it seemed like a type of girl that was popular in previous anime but whose appeal seems to have dropped like a rock in modern times. So, whatever did happen to the appeal of the Yamato Nadesico? The Perfect and Proper Japanese girl? [EDIT: Fixed some broken quote tags. - Key] |
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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This is interesting in a sense that today's Japanese anime male audiences aren't going for either one of the "Perfect and Proper Japanese woman/girl". And that's why you don't see them being made in the current anime series. Of course, this is only for the general audiences, whereas the more explicit ones aren't so choosy. Beggars can't be choosers, I think. 
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Mister V
Posts: 1000 |
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Hitting things (and people) with any sort of object is, first and foremost, a widely used gag, an instrument of comedy. Kaname hit Sousuke at least as much. Taiga in the end loses her "tsun-tsun" side almost completely (and I should mention that I thought Shana lost it way earlier), but it's true that her image is that of a much less mature girl than Kaname. Either way, the craziness is just a comical, hyperbolic representation of what you call a "challenging" relationship, so I don't think there's a major distinction between "old-school" and "new age"; we can, however, notice that the "little tsundere girl" type is becoming more prevalent (thanks in no small part to Kugimiya Rie ), and it seems that the smaller the girl, the more crazy she is. I suppose it's just a period of popularity of a certain character type... it may go away in the next decade, only to return later.
Note that Senjougahara doesn't really follow that pattern, but then the show is so self-aware that her behaviour might be considered a parody. PetrifiedJello: while I agree with you, many people go crazy over a certain aspect (the best example would be moe, and a certain show from the spring season), so the OP's general assumption would be more or less correct. |
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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When Sousuke got hit by Kaname with a harmless paper fan, he deserved it because he overreacted toward a lot of situations. And Kaname was simply disciplining him in a nonlethal manner, that's being expressed comically via exaggerations. This is in fact challenging because spoiler[while Sousuke obviously is having troubles with adjusting civilian lifestyle as a career soldier, Kaname OTOH is a civilian that suddenly got toss into a military agenda beyond her normal scope of understanding because of her ability as a Whisper that she doesn't even know about]. However that's so not the case for Taiga's both physically and verbally abusive behaviors toward Ryūji, in a sense that nobody deserve to be treated that way. Especially when Ryūji did absolutely nothing wrong to Taiga when they first met at school, but she still lashed out at him both publicly and most definitely when they're in private. And this carried out spoiler[even after Taiga forced Ryūji into cooperating with her, and Ryūji had ever since been supportive to Taiga while she still refers him as a "stupid dog"]. Taiga's obvious immaturity notwithstanding, she's crazy because while what she did to Ryūji was wrong, spoiler[she's got nothing to say about her wrong doings but in the most abusive way possible; blaming others and herself of their own incompetence.] And if this crazy little girls popularity trend will end, I wish that it'll end sooner than later and never repeat itself again. Because I just don't think the behaviors of these characters are normal, when they are in fact unhealthy due to their abusive nature.
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Mister V
Posts: 1000 |
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Oh, hey, I'm not trying to be judgemental (I don't use "crazy" in its negative sense). Everyone has their own quirks, and liking maids/robots/whatever is fine by me. I was just pointing out that as many people seem to like those characters, the industry produces more and more. Kind of what the OP was talking about. OK, this has come full circle
On the Kaname/Taiga comparison: you gave a really nice example of what I was trying to say, I'm just saying that imo the root of the problem is the difference of maturity of those two characters. You know how children are more direct (and consequently cruel)? Same thing here. Basically it's the same tsundere, only on another level (and for the record, I prefer Kaname, especially because of her seiyuu). One can wonder why exactly this "new" version became more popular over the years... |
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