Forum - View topicYuri vs. Yaoi - The good, the bad, and the perverted
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space clam
Posts: 636 |
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(*takes deep breath, knowing this could open a can of Siberian death worms) What is this subject that causes such bitter hatred in chat rooms and forums the world over? How come the arguments never form logical thought patterns? What is really so wonderful about creating perverted fanfiction? I want to hear everyone's opinion on this. Maybe we can get to the root of this, so we can all sleep without getting Internet death threats.
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Personally, I have no problems with yaoi or yuri. There are couplings on both ends I rather enjoy. Now there are some yaoi/yuri pairings I don't much care for because they conflict too much with the base anime/manga's plot, are way too out of character, or I just happen to prefer another coupling (example: I'm not too fond of yaoi pairings involving Miroku from Inu-Yasha because I'm too much of a fan of Miroku/Sango). But on the whole, I'm quite open-minded to this sort of thing.
NOW, why does this always create such a fuss? Well, there's the obvious homophobia factor, which pretty much speaks for itself (a single gay-basher can bring down a 200-page yaoi/yuri thread if they're loud enough). But there's also the factor of the overzealous fanboy/girl. Most homosexual anime pairings are purely the creation of fans. Naturally, these fans can become quite defensive of their creations...even viciously defensive. Question a pairing they happen to be a staunch supporter of, and you get labeled a homophobe, get called blind because you can't see "OMG THE OBVIOUS SIGNES!", or you're just generally bitched at incessantly until you submit. Again, a single one of these can bring an otherwise civil conversation to a screeching halt. And there are typically more than one camping any given anime forum. 
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Well, some people find it immoral... and just as an added thought, if you somebody tells the individual who thinks that way that it's wrong, then that individual supporting homosexuality is saying their morals are more correct... (remember that the gay people are just as capable and will bash that individual too) so it's a vicious cycle. Being an anime forum, I digress though, since this thread isn't really about that.
At the same time, Nagisa does bring up that the fans who go hardcore to create the parings that were not intended by the author... and to be honest, I think they are worse, because it seems there are a lot more of them than the first set mentioned. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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I'm incredibly sorry about this, but could you...reword that? 
And I'm aware some people find it immoral. I still consider that a prejudice against homosexuality, though, and tend to group it into my definition of homophobia. Remember people, "phobia" doesn't just mean intense fear, it also means intense dislike, and I don't exactly think someone saying "it's immoral" is all too accepting of such a thing... Also, if I'm reading you right, yes, prejudice does go both ways, but since this is a thread about the controversy of yaoi/yuri, I only brought up the "against gays" prejudice since...and I may be wrong...but there's not that much "against hetero" prejudice in the yaoi/yuri debate (except among the most extreme y/y pairing fanatics). I agree though, that the aforementioned fanatics cause the greater amount of problems, since anime fans as a whole (by my experiences) are typically more accepting of same-sex relationships than...say...a Bible-Belt minister.  So you're not often going to find someone with an overt anti-gay agenda in an anime forum.
Last edited by Nagisa on Wed Oct 15, 2003 11:06 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ian
 Posts: 149 Location: Thaxton, VA |
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Here are my thoughts:
I do not like yuri or youi, its just not my thing. No I havn't actually sat through any shows or read any manga, but that's because my friend (who is a youi-holic) likes to show me the more graphic moments. However, I am not a homophobe and have a few friends who are actually bi or gay (and a few that just don't know). I have no problems with gay/lesbian themes in reading or viewing material, but I really don't want it to be the center of it. In my oppinion, those who speak out against gays/lesbians are simply either closed-minded or are more recluse to the modern age. People just don't seem to understand that sexual preferance is just another preferance, like music or anime (I love Excel Saga, my friend hates it, we deal, we are still friends). I guess what I am really trying to say is can't we all just get along? |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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That would be nice, wouldn't it? And I can sympathize with the "over-exposure to yaoi" thing. Some friends of mine are a bit more...enthusiastic about it than others. And even if I do like some yaoi, there is such a thing as too much. Especially Lord of the Rings yaoi, which I particularly am not fond of at all, but they seem rather...engrossed in at the moment.
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Well knowing one fangirl very well, along with being friends with several others, I see they like the yaoi. To be honest, I like the yuri to a point, but it almost always goes overboard into hentai.
The big thing I see is that fangirls are perhaps similar to the fanboy, thus if the characters are together, then the fan could have both at the same time. It could also be that it is a view that allows strong and pretty men as a replacement for women, allowing them to be empowered, while not having to breakdown some mental barriers about gender roles. |
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Lord_Satorious
 Posts: 15 Location: Boston, MA, USA |
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I think this is a required read for everybody interested in understanding yaoi;
What Yaoi means? Please explain to us your infactuation with Yaoi stuff. Over here in North America, anything relating to two males having some sort of relationship isn't very mainstream. It's only for a niche audience. Although we have to be politically correct about it, people still see these type of people as odd/strange/abnormal. The main page is filled with interested articles as well; Japanese Subculture FAQ --------------------- Lord_Satorious The World-Wide Gundam Informational Network "The Nu Gundam isn't just for show!" - Capt. Amuro Ray, UC 0093 |
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Emerje
 Posts: 7425 Location: Maine |
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Personally I don't care, to me they're just fantasies and if I don't want to be exposed to it then I'll avoid it. If I do find myself facing it when I don't want to I'm adult enough to shrug it off. No big deal. I just see it as another form of hentai (or in some cases just romance) that isn't for everyone, but obviously appeals to someone. Unfortunatly I'm not everyone and there's always going to be people who want to push their values on you, on or off line, agressivly or non agressivly.
Emerje |
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cyrax777
 Posts: 1825 Location: the desert |
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I just wish people would admit that Yaoi is porn.
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Godaistudios
Posts: 2075 Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment) |
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Sure... I always find it difficult to word in a way that is concise. Basically, it means that you can't enfoce your own moral code without trotting over somebody else's. In context of the post, it could be said that homosexuals are being equally intolerant of the those who live with the moral code that says that homosexuality is wrong. In that respect, it could also be said that homosexuals are prejudiced against those who think it's immoral. Inotherwords, it applies regardsless of how one stands on a moral issue. So if you argue in favor of one moral stance, you are riding over someone else's moral stance or beleifs. In that one respect, there is no such thing as intolerance. Anytime you take any kind of stance, you are stating your values, and thus, promoting your values above all others.
Ehh... I'm more in the direction of the bible-belt minister, but since this is an anime forum, I usually don't bring things up. If this were a thread focused more on whether it is right or wrong, I'd be more likely to say other things. It is related in that one sense that some people might find it immoral (and thus contributing to a very small part of the people who dislike Yuri and Yaoi pairings.) So, granted, you won't find too many christians who are anime fans simply because of the stigma and misinformation spread about anime, so I definetly see why this won't come up. However, as you made it quite clear, it is basically the hardcore fans who are so zealous and adamant that two characters belong together that many find it in poor taste, with some fans trying to go as far as to convice the manga-ka otherwise. |
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Emerje
Posts: 7425 Location: Maine |
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but... Yaoi = Gay porn Shounen-ai = Gay romance Yuri = Lesbian porn Shougo-ai = Lesbian romance One emphesises sex while the other emphesises love. That's pretty much it right? Emerje |
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lianncoop
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 1705 Location: Indiana |
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It's just fanfiction. Therefore, it really shouldn't be an issue. Fans creating what they want for themselves or for people who want to read it. It's up to you if you want to read it or not. If I missed the point of this thread, I'm sorry. I couldn't really figure out if you were asking about Yuri/Yaoi fanfiction, or about Yuri/Yaoi in general. |
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pythos
Posts: 127 Location: Denver, CO |
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The YAOI = gay porn thing is a misconception. YAOI is for women, it IS NOT for gay men. The men in these comics do not resemble gay men, or even men in general. http://www.aestheticism.com/visitors/index.htm Aesthetism, while a fan site, has a very comprehensive list of definitions (including fan terms), FAQ's, etc. that may be of some help. Some quick definitions/generalizations: Shounen'ai: focus on "boy love" but not sex YAOI: male/male stories, contain sex (these run the range from focusing on the relationship to focusing on the sex) Not all YAOI are doujinshi. Many are original stories/characters created by mangaka. Unfortunately here in the West, YAOI has generally come to refer to all male/male comics. (I'm not familiar with Yuri/Shougo'ai works so I can't comment on them, but I doubt the porn/romance generalization holds true for them either.) If anyone wants to learn more about "boy love" comics, I suggest you check out some of the papers by Dr. Mark McLelland (Center for Critical & Cultural Studies) or by any of the other scholars who've reasearched the genre (Sharon Kinsella, Cole Bard, Matt Thorn, etc.). Mark McLelland http://www.cccs.uq.edu.au/personnel/index.html#mclelland Sharon Kinsella http://www.kinsellaresearch.com (NOTE: I'm including these links as they're the only one's I can remember off the top of my head.) |
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Ian
Posts: 149 Location: Thaxton, VA |
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I was unfamliar with Shounen-Ai and Shougo-Ai up until now.... Is it just me or does youi seem to be more popular than yuri? Or is it just that the fangirls are more outspoken about this than the fanboys? Could it possibly be because the fangirls have an excessive imagination and the fanboys use theirs for de-stressing material?
NOTE: I plan on commenting often as I would also like to enilghten myself concerning this. |
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