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Death Note or Ergo Proxy




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Evasiege



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Finally got some free time and i've been looking at watching these for a long time. Heard great things from both, but which should I watch first?
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covah



Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 39
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:33 pm Reply with quote
both are REALLY good. they both have great stories, compelling characters, and psychological themes. it really is hard to decide, but if I had to I'd say Ergo Proxy first just because Death Note can get a little dry some times when it's not like the battle of the minds between Light and L.

but at the same time, Death Note makes more cohesive sense. Ergo Proxy requires you to really pay attention to some parts to get what is really going on.
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Setsuna666



Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 8:47 pm Reply with quote
Like covah said, they are great show Razz. So, in order to decide I would toss a coin Razz
Seriously, I would start with Ergo Proxy, not that Death Note is not more interesting...just because Ergo Proxy is shorter. It also depends, if you alternate between the 2 series, like 1 episode of Ergo Proxy, and after another of Death Note
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Jedi General



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2485
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:02 pm Reply with quote
Watch Ergo Proxy. It's the best dystopian sci-fi I've ever seen of any medium period. Both shows are absolutely fantastic, but Ergo Proxy is quite a bit better than Death Note in my opinion. The only thing about Proxy is that it's much harder to follow than DN. DN is much more straightforward, and the first 25 episodes are just superb. It kind of goes downhill after that, but it's still fantastic over all. Ergo Proxy though, it just kept turning left when I thought it would right, if you know what I mean. I was greatly impressed by that series.
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LuckySleven



Joined: 13 Mar 2007
Posts: 426
Location: Refer to page 2
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Agree with everyone so far, both are excellent shows. Since Ergo Proxy has it's series completed, watch it first then Death Note. Or what you can do is watch all of Death Note and when you wait for the next episode you can watch Ergo Proxy. When you done watching that, go watch something else like Higurashi no Naku Koro ni or some other psychological horror.[/b]
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Evasiege



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 34
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:22 pm Reply with quote
Setsuna666 wrote:
Like covah said, they are great show Razz. So, in order to decide I would toss a coin Razz
Seriously, I would start with Ergo Proxy, not that Death Note is not more interesting...just because Ergo Proxy is shorter. It also depends, if you alternate between the 2 series, like 1 episode of Ergo Proxy, and after another of Death Note


Hmm, I usually don't like alternating between two series. Typically there are just too many characters and too much info to adequately process all at once. But, I think I might give Ergo a try first as thats what caught my eye first.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Jedi General wrote:
Watch Ergo Proxy. It's the best dystopian sci-fi I've ever seen of any medium period.


What? You're serious? There are far superior examples in both manga and anime. Not to mention plenty of other examples in so many different mediums, such as novels and films. But then again it's not surprising to see such lauded praise considering overwhelming pretentiousness constitutes as something being "deep" and "intelligent." Rolling Eyes

... My issues with Ergo Proxy aside (actually I have more with the fans, but whatever), I'd actually still recommend it sooner than Death Note, if you're looking for something that will leave you completely satisfied. Having read the original manga and seeing that Madhouse is more or less doing a faithful adaption, albeit cutting down a fair amount of the second half to at least make it bearable along with the prior arc, Death Note is an overrated but still very solid thriller that sadly takes a nosedive in the writing department as it goes on. I'd say that Ergo Proxy actually goes up in its quality with its storytelling when it breaks away from the generic sci-fi set up. It also holds one of my favorite individual episodes in anime, specifically episode sixteen, so it's at least worth a shot.

So yeah, go with Ergo Proxy.
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Jedi General



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2485
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Yes, I'm serious. I haven't seen or read most of those examples, HellKorn, although some of them I do plan on checking out in the future. The only one I've actually read is Battle Angel Alita, which I have not completed yet, but for now I'd still put Ergo Proxy above it. What can I say? I just absolutely love Proxy. There's just something about it that really clicked with me.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:28 pm Reply with quote
Jedi General wrote:
I haven't seen or read most of those examples, HellKorn, although some of them I do plan on watching in the future.


Yay.

Texhnolyze is without a doubt my favorite anime. It's incredibly slow-paced but it focuses more on showing than telling (which if EP had done differently I would've held it in higher esteem, but that's what you get with Dai Sato throwing in obscure references that do nothing for the story). Arguably the twenty-two episode series is the most intelligent anime ever created.

A Clockwork Orange is sinister. Kubrick also adapted it into a film, which I've also seen and liked very much, though his omissions and changes are rather irksome. However, I've briefly read in other topics that you're uncomfortable with "intense" situations, so I do warn you that there is rape in both versions. Nothing unbearably graphic, from perspective, though if you can handle the subject at all then I'd suggest moving on.

Brazil is downright brilliant. One of the most finely crafted movies ever made. It's from the mind of Terry Gilliam, one of the members of the infamous Monty Python, and it's black comedy at its best (save for Dr. Stangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb). I'd think a good number of folks would find it boring, but to those interested in such insane and surreal storytelling would definitely be missing out if they don't watch this film.

The other two links I gave are of works by Ray Bradbury and Philip K. Dick, so those should speak for themselves, I'd hope.

Quote:
The only one I've actually read is Battle Angel Alita, which I have not completed yet...


Do you mean all of the original series, or do you mean of the Last Order continuation?
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Jedi General



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2485
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:33 pm Reply with quote
The original series. I've read 5 volumes. Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Battle Angel, just not as much as Proxy. At least not yet.

Thanks for the little blurbs. I'll avoid Clockwork, based on what you said. At for least right now. Who knows, maybe I be able to handle that when I'm older and (hopefully) wiser. Brazil I'd never even heard of until now. Based on the blurb, I'll be adding it to my watch list. Texhnolyze has been on my watch list for some time now (Metropolis too). Perhaps I should prioritize my viewing of them.

As for Bradbury and Dick, they do speak for themselves.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Fri May 11, 2007 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Jedi General wrote:
The original series. I've read 5 volumes. Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoy Battle Angel, just not as much as Proxy. At least not yet.


Ah, well, keep at it. Save for the last chapter and epilogue, the original Battle Angel Alita is the best example of cybperunk that you'd find in manga, from what I've read. Last Order took a while to build up, as the first few volumes are meandering and just overall uninspired, but recent ones are proving to be definitely worthwhile.

Quote:
... Metropolis too...


Which reminds me that I forgot to comment on it above.

Metropolis is my favorite silent movie, just a bit ahead of the wonderful comedy, The General. It's highly imaginative, and the subject matter is rather fitting of the times. Fritz Lang made an incredibly inspirational work out of it. There are shades of it to be seen in many other contemporary sci-fi works, of which Ergo Proxy is included. Then again, EP pretty much alludes to just about every other single popular dystopian/sci-fi/cyberpunk ever created (even though outside of a few elements, it is actually not cybperunk).

And to make one final comment before allowing this thread to get back on-topic: Dr. Strangelove is certainly worth your time as well. One of the most terrifying films of its time, it's masterful satire on the Cold War with some of the most memorable lines ever composed in U.S. cinema.
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7992
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:20 am Reply with quote
Evasiege wrote:
Finally got some free time and i've been looking at watching these for a long time. Heard great things from both, but which should I watch first?


Watch both. You don't even have to pay for Ergo Proxy if you get Fuse though cable or satelite TV as it's airing next month.
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Otsegolectric



Joined: 29 Apr 2007
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 12:22 am Reply with quote
Ergo Proxy does require a lot of attention, so if you're watching a Subtitled version of it pay attention to the extra information it gives or you are bound to get lost.

But, a great Anime. Very Happy
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Randall Miyashiro



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2451
Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park
PostPosted: Sat May 12, 2007 6:55 am Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
Texhnolyze is without a doubt my favorite anime. It's incredibly slow-paced but it focuses more on showing than telling (which if EP had done differently I would've held it in higher esteem, but that's what you get with Dai Sato throwing in obscure references that do nothing for the story). Arguably the twenty-two episode series is the most intelligent anime ever created.


My main issue with Texhnolyze still stands around the protagonists. I just can't seem to find any connections with any of the characters. I do appreciate the themes and intrigue in the story, but feel rather emotionally detached when watching the series. I also like Ergo better aesthetically. The general Witch Hunter Robin look really works for me. Tex might be more intelligent, but not as enjoyable to me.

HellKorn wrote:
A Clockwork Orange is sinister. Kubrick also adapted it into a film, which I've also seen and liked very much, though his omissions and changes are rather irksome. However, I've briefly read in other topics that you're uncomfortable with "intense" situations, so I do warn you that there is rape in both versions. Nothing unbearably graphic, from perspective, though if you can handle the subject at all then I'd suggest moving on.


I bought this on laser discs many years ago and have seen it in the theater twice. Did you know that the LD is divided in three equal length sides which comprise the three acts. My roommate who has a degree in film has a photo of Kubrick hanging next to his bed, and we have spent many hours discussing his films.

HellKorn wrote:
Brazil is downright brilliant. One of the most finely crafted movies ever made. It's from the mind of Terry Gilliam, one of the members of the infamous Monty Python, and it's black comedy at its best (save for Dr. Stangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb). I'd think a good number of folks would find it boring, but to those interested in such insane and surreal storytelling would definitely be missing out if they don't watch this film.


I've seen this film four times in the movie theater. Twice before the directors cut and twice after. One of my favorite film teacher considered this the greatest film ever made. I ended up buying the Criterion LD box set for this film for $150 when it was originally issued. I like all of the films that Gilliam directed up to Twelve Monkeys and am sad that the Good Omens project got derailed.

HellKorn wrote:
The other two links I gave are of works by Ray Bradbury and Philip K. Dick, so those should speak for themselves, I'd hope.


I wish Ray Bradbury had a larger collection of longer works. I did enjoy both Something Wicked and 451, but can't get as excited with his short stories. On the other hand PKD has such a huge collection of novels that it will take me some time before I finish reading them all. I try to even read the winners of the annual PKD award. My favorite being the amazing Tim Powers, who Androids Dream is actually dedicated to. I bought the Blu-Ray of Scanner Darkly this week, but haven't had a chance to watch it yet.

It's good to see that there are other SF fans out there HellKorn. Someday soon I'll try to trek out to City Lights bookstore and take a picture. Maybe I'll replace my current avatar of myself with it once it is taken. I'm also a Fritz Lang fan and found it really funny when I watched the Fullmetal film. My roommate being a huge fan actually guessed who Bradley was as soon as he appeared.. Dr. Strangelove was a film that I didn't get around to buying until it was released on DVD. I only managed to see this film once in the theaters, but many times on video. This might be my most watched black and white film. I love the episode in the Simpsons where Homer is riding the bomb.

My two cents OT. Since Death Note has yet to be released on R1 DVD I have nothing to say about it. Ergo Proxy along with Noein are my favorite series that I'm currently collecting. They are the only two series being released that I have shown to my roommates and friends, who are mostly not anime fans. I can't imagine showing them something like Shana, Fate/Stay, or My-Hime.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:08 pm Reply with quote
Randall Miyashiro wrote:
My main issue with Texhnolyze still stands around the protagonists. I just can't seem to find any connections with any of the characters. I do appreciate the themes and intrigue in the story, but feel rather emotionally detached when watching the series. I also like Ergo better aesthetically. The general Witch Hunter Robin look really works for me. Tex might be more intelligent, but not as enjoyable to me.


Since I don't believe in arguing those kind of aesthetics, I can't say much on the matter. I understand that the characters would appeal to a vast audience, even though myself and some others around here, for instance, found that being the major reason why TEX worked so much for us. The Lynchian characterization worked tremendously well for me.

But for EP, I think the characters were the saving grace of what would've a series that just threw a lot of ideas at you with a story that fits the definition of pretentious. Vincent, Re-l, and Pino really did grow on me, and if they are one of the main points for you, then you'll absolutely love volume four.

Quote:
I bought this on laser discs many years ago and have seen it in the theater twice. Did you know that the LD is divided in three equal length sides which comprise the three acts.


Heh, wow, I certainly didn't. The movie was more meticulously planned than I thought.

Quote:
My roommate who has a degree in film has a photo of Kubrick hanging next to his bed, and we have spent many hours discussing his films.


Stanley Kubrick is definitely one of my favorite directors. I don't remember which specific review, but it stated that in contrast to most directors who try to pander to its audience, Kubrick didn't even know that he had an audience. Laughing

Quote:
I've seen this film four times in the movie theater. Twice before the directors cut and twice after. One of my favorite film teacher considered this the greatest film ever made. I ended up buying the Criterion LD box set for this film for $150 when it was originally issued. I like all of the films that Gilliam directed up to Twelve Monkeys and am sad that the Good Omens project got derailed.


I actually haven't seen any other of Gilliam's films, surprisingly enough. Which ones would you recommend that I see first?

Quote:
It's good to see that there are other SF fans out there HellKorn.


Sci-fi is probably my favorite genre, even though the works tend to be polarizing of how much I like them. Generally I find them to be either excellently done and love them or else rather ho-hum and just not care. But such an immense variety of themes can be explored in the genre, which I can't honestly say for others.

Quote:
I'm also a Fritz Lang fan and found it really funny when I watched the Fullmetal film. My roommate being a huge fan actually guessed who Bradley was as soon as he appeared..


I was just too shocked to be "happy" that Lang made a "cameo" in the FMA movie. The whole thing felt preposterous... but, eh, it's anime.

Quote:
Dr. Strangelove was a film that I didn't get around to buying until it was released on DVD. I only managed to see this film once in the theaters, but many times on video. This might be my most watched black and white film. I love the episode in the Simpsons where Homer is riding the bomb.


Heh, the scene with Major Kong riding the bomb to its target... one of the greatest scene in U.S. film-making. Dr. Strangelove is, without a doubt, my favorite comedy.

Oh, and if you're looking for good black and white films, I'd recommend favorites like The Third Man (where I like Welles much more than in Citizen Kane, for some reason) and technically Johnny Got His Gun, the latter of which is quite hard to find (it also drifts between color and black and white, for symbolism). If nothing else, check out the original novel by Trumbo, which is one of the most powerful pieces of fiction that has ever been crafted.
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