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Japans animation software




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Viga_of_stars



Joined: 17 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:34 pm Reply with quote
Does the japanese use flash to animate their anime or do they use a different program to do it. Also is it true they still use hand drawn techniques. its something i find hard to belive in the era were in.

I just take a big interest in animation techniques.
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frentymon
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:45 pm Reply with quote
Go take a look at Hanoka, animated entirely in flash, and then come back and share with us whether you still think that there is a remote possibility that any sensible Japanese studio would use FLASH to animate remotely anything.
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:20 pm Reply with quote
I can answer with one specific example at least: the original Digimon Adventure movie used something called Retas! Pro.

I'm sure I have books on other anime that give information like that, but this is the only one I can think of specifically at the moment (I thought Chobits was one but cannot find anything at the moment)
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Cloe
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:23 pm Reply with quote
frentymon wrote:
Go take a look at Hanoka, animated entirely in flash, and then come back and share with us whether you still think that there is a remote possibility that any sensible Japanese studio would use FLASH to animate remotely anything.

Geh, while that is quite awful looking, I wouldn't use that as the standard for what Flash is capable of. ^^; That's just horrible animation. Tamala 2010 is a combination of Flash and 3D animation and it's much more successful, stylistically. And then there are all the relatively well-animated American shows and commercials that use Flash (like the work Renegade Animation produces, all in-house). I'd be interested to see a well made all-Flash anime sometime; the potential is there to create something really impressive.

To answer your question, Viga, After Effects seems to be the most common post-production program used right now. In all the "making of" documentaries I've seen, I see that software the most often. Most traditional 2D animation starts out hand-drawn, with the key frame drawings. These are then timed out and set to dope sheets, which indicate where in-betweens are needed. Then the drawings are cleaned up, and then either in-betweened in house or shipped to Korea for in-betweening. After that they are scanned into the computer, colored and composited with the background using production software like After Effects (or something similar). It's there that additional lighting and shadow can be added, as well as tinting and color correction. Recently, a lot of 3D elements are common in many series; these are made using 3D Studio Max (which seems to be the most common, from what I've seen), Softimage (which Studio 4°C used for Tekkon Kinkreet's backgrounds!), LightWave or Maya. These are then exported and composited with the other drawings.
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10円



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:17 pm Reply with quote
I remember hearing/reading that Gonzo initially tried to use lower-end OTS software, failed, and ended up making/customizing their own effects engines since they couldn't afford the higher-end products at the time. At this point I'm assuming they're using customized versions of the higher-end software Cloe mentioned. I have a legit version of Maya Complete around here somewhere but I never had the motivation to fire it up, let alone really dig into it. Flash might be cool to use or maybe the Havok engine.

http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/32/files2/69106_5.jpg
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Viga_of_stars



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 12:29 pm Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
frentymon wrote:
Go take a look at Hanoka, animated entirely in flash, and then come back and share with us whether you still think that there is a remote possibility that any sensible Japanese studio would use FLASH to animate remotely anything.

Geh, while that is quite awful looking, I wouldn't use that as the standard for what Flash is capable of. ^^; That's just horrible animation. Tamala 2010 is a combination of Flash and 3D animation and it's much more successful, stylistically. And then there are all the relatively well-animated American shows and commercials that use Flash (like the work Renegade Animation produces, all in-house). I'd be interested to see a well made all-Flash anime sometime; the potential is there to create something really impressive.

To answer your question, Viga, After Effects seems to be the most common post-production program used right now. In all the "making of" documentaries I've seen, I see that software the most often. Most traditional 2D animation starts out hand-drawn, with the key frame drawings. These are then timed out and set to dope sheets, which indicate where in-betweens are needed. Then the drawings are cleaned up, and then either in-betweened in house or shipped to Korea for in-betweening. After that they are scanned into the computer, colored and composited with the background using production software like After Effects (or something similar). It's there that additional lighting and shadow can be added, as well as tinting and color correction. Recently, a lot of 3D elements are common in many series; these are made using 3D Studio Max (which seems to be the most common, from what I've seen), Softimage (which Studio 4°C used for Tekkon Kinkreet's backgrounds!), LightWave or Maya. These are then exported and composited with the other drawings.


wow! thank you! i really couldnt find an answer!

so i guess they mix the old and new tech together. thank you. and i always thought anime never used flash or maybe they used a japanese flash similar program thats...well better than americas.

one of the site with software that was mentioned has a demo. i wanna try!
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abunai
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:27 pm Reply with quote
Viga_of_stars wrote:
one of the site with software that was mentioned has a demo. i wanna try!

You can do better than that. Maya comes in a Personal Learning Edition, which is a non-commercial-use introductory limited version of the software. It's free for students, and it will give you a chance to get into the software. By the time you hit the "edges" of what the limited verion can do, you're skirting professional territory, so it's a very useful way to get started.

- abunai
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KyuuA4



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:44 pm Reply with quote
Hardly anybody uses cel animation anymore as it is time consuming and not to mention expensive.
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emory



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 4:09 pm Reply with quote
Much digitally colored animation is put together using Animo.
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Cloe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 5:39 pm Reply with quote
10円 wrote:
I remember hearing/reading that Gonzo initially tried to use lower-end OTS software, failed, and ended up making/customizing their own effects engines since they couldn't afford the higher-end products at the time. At this point I'm assuming they're using customized versions of the higher-end software Cloe mentioned.

That's weird, because I know the post for Gantz was done in straight-up After Effects. Not that I don't believe you; it's common for many production houses and studios to develop their own in-house software. Perhaps it just depends on the personal preferences of each series' director. And I couldn't figure out which 3D program they were using to build the backgrounds and temples and stuff; it looked kinda like 3ds Max but I couldn't tell for sure. Maybe that 3D engine is custom.

Quote:
Flash might be cool to use or maybe the Havok engine.

^^; Havok is more for gaming, isn't it? Programs like Maya already have physics simulations inside them so using Havok would be kind of pointless. And Half-Life 2 uses the Source engine, which includes a heavily-modified version of Havok, but it's different from the original. Props for the Half-Life 2 reference, though. That game is so amazing.

Viga, if it's something you'd like to try, the Learning Edition of Maya is a great tool. It's a vast program with a huge learning curve, though, so don't be discouraged if you don't understand everything right away. People who have used Maya for over a decade still haven't mastered everything the program has to offer.
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10円



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 605
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Cloe wrote:
That's weird, because I know the post for Gantz was done in straight-up After Effects.


I believe the story I'm thinking of was in an early Newtype USA magazine and referred to Gonzo's very early computer-enhanced productions. I've since given away all of my various Newtype USA magazines so I can't verify it at this stage but maybe somebody else can.

Cloe wrote:
^^; Havok is more for gaming, isn't it? Programs like Maya already have physics simulations inside them so using Havok would be kind of pointless.


Havok is indeed the basis for many of the best looking game engines like Half Life 2, Far Cry, FEAR, Oblivion, etc. but that's no reason to pigeonhole it into a specific task. The Source engine is a great example of how even real-time game engines can be used to create nearly photo-realistic displays that can far exceed the native resolution of Blu-ray and HD-DVD content with the right hardware.

Cloe wrote:
Viga, if it's something you'd like to try, the Learning Edition of Maya is a great tool. It's a vast program with a huge learning curve, though, so don't be discouraged if you don't understand everything right away. People who have used Maya for over a decade still haven't mastered everything the program has to offer.


The professional Maya Unlimited is now at $7,000USD and the mid-range Maya Complete is around $2,000. That may sound very expensive, but it's a whole lot cheaper than it used to be back in the Alias|Wavefront era.
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Cloe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:53 pm Reply with quote
10円 wrote:
Havok is indeed the basis for many of the best looking game engines like Half Life 2, Far Cry, FEAR, Oblivion, etc. but that's no reason to pigeonhole it into a specific task. The Source engine is a great example of how even real-time game engines can be used to create nearly photo-realistic displays that can far exceed the native resolution of Blu-ray and HD-DVD content with the right hardware.

Sometimes I really wish there was an off-topic forum we could talk about stuff like this in more detail. I'd love to talk about Half Life 2, FEAR, Far Cry etc with forum people I'm already familiar with. There was a pretty fun game thread about a year ago that the mods allowed; maybe they would let another one slide. Wink

10円 wrote:
The professional Maya Unlimited is now at $7,000USD and the mid-range Maya Complete is around $2,000. That may sound very expensive, but it's a whole lot cheaper than it used to be back in the Alias|Wavefront era.

Great, great prices to be sure, but I'd never recommend a beginner to purchase such high-end software without having touched it before. Especially Maya. Amazing program, but very hard to get the hang of without help. (Unless you were talking to me when you made that comment, and my fiance already owns Maya Unlimited 7.0. It's not the newest, but it does its job.)
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Swissman



Joined: 11 May 2006
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Location: Switzerland
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:53 am Reply with quote
Viga_of_stars wrote:
Does the japanese use flash to animate their anime or do they use a different program to do it.

Most japanese studios seem to use RetasPro nowadays.
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