Forum - View topicThe Stories Behind Fate/Apocrypha's Servants of Red
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marvel knight
Posts: 98 |
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Come on, if you're not planning to make a biased article then don't treat Karna as the sinless soul who totally didn't deserve death even a little bit.
More he and Arjuna were forced by circumstances and external factors, with Arjuna not even knowing their relation till afterwards. In face he was spurred to kill him only after being told by his family that Karna was going overboard and using divine weapons on ordinary soldiers. And fans like him too, which is why we're waiting for his appearance in Apoc every week. He was only introduced last year in comparison to Karna having years of development since 2012. |
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Emdykay
 Posts: 85 |
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Regarding Semiramis the fact that her Nobel Phantasm is completly ridiculous is the point and her fake motive. Apparently Apocrypha goes by the assumption that everybody assumes she was responsible for the gardens, which is obviously wrong, regardless wether what we know as the Hanging Gardens existed or not, and it becoming a part of her legend.
Her creation abilities are actually limited to poison and her NOT building it, as is the fact that it does need to be built by unmagicy means, is obligatory and part of the deal. In the end it is a representation of decadence and vanity, and a lie turned into reality. And yes it is weird. I also agree that Atalante is a disappointment, to me even more so than Achilles, considering she is such an interesting character due to her legends as continuous back and forth on ancient greeks ideas of feminisim (there is even a version of the Argonauts where Jason apparently "learned the lesson" of the boar hunt and denies her coming aboard, on grounds of having a sworn virgin among the hammiest collection of large hams of ancient greece, of which quite a few had a "reputation", would be a semi-good idea) and not making her character about it, like at all, is really squandered potential. |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2501 |
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Oh, so my interpretation of Saber's line in F/SN saying she "knew how to please men" before going down on Shiro was correct. Turns out ol' King Arthur had a tough job keeping the Round Table calm, huh 
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LimeCatMaster
 Posts: 16 |
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Aww man, it's still a bit away, but I was hoping we'd get s feature on the servants of Fate/Extra, seeing as it's getting an adaptation rather soon. Of course, even without counting returning servants, if you also take CCC into account, there's a lot to tackle.
And I definitely wasn't hoping for an Extra feature so that best girl (who is Tamamo, by the way) would have some time. |
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13243 |
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Actually since this Ruler was summoned instead of Avenger the Grail was never corrupted. It could still grant him flesh but no black muck was involved.
You mean who to whale for in FGO, right? I think I might go with a certain dragon riding saint... |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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Several ancient writers (Ctesias, Strabo) assume or are thought to assume Hanging Gardens to be built by Semiramis or for her. Even the alternate title of that building is "Hanging Gardens of Semiramis". So in fact her having Hanging Gardens makes perfect sense without trying to tie it in with this forced interpretation that every Servant in Apocrypha is related to the "fake" theme.
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ThatMoonGuy
Posts: 364 |
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No matter what you say, Atalanta is still best girl. With that out of the way, since most Servants from this were created by different people and some of them are different from what the original line up of the Tokyo Grail War (which had a bunch of cooler boys in the form of Saint George, David and Sakata Gintoki). Given that, I'm not sure about this overarching theme specially since some of the points are rather flimsy and that this was already a theme in UBW. I mean, I don't think there is any theme at all so this is as valid argument as any but I still fail to see it in quite a lot of Servants.
That said, Red is better in terms of Servants than Black. I mean, it is somby default as far as I'm concerned since Black has a tendency for more GO-like Servants while Red still feels more or less in accord to older Fate properties. Oh, and the double class thing? Like many other "rules" in this war it's bull that doesn't get used anywhere else. Which is a shame. The team battle idea holds but i wish they had done this with just seven Servants so that they could all receive more focus as well as the Masters. The master-servant relationships are some of the coolest things in any Fate and Apocrypha mostly gets them right so.maybe with more screen time some pairings could have actually gotten more development and some events might've been more impacting. |
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Izanagi009
 Posts: 465 Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA |
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Random note about Karna and why he's so cold and stoic
spoiler[Karna is stated to have an ability called Discernment of the Poor, which allows him to see the true nature of people in words and can't be deceived by excuses or lies. However, he got this skills because he never grew up with a human mother so, according to the fate wiki, he never learned the subtitles of human emotion. He also, according to the personality profile, sees most things and events as normal so he won't interfere] Yeah, Karna is a bit more complex in his full description in the fate universe and I like him because i feels parts of his personality are similar to autism which i have. Regardless, I do want to see more of Karna |
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jr240483
 Posts: 4524 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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i was more or less under the assumption on the servants from fate/grand order would be done instead of the servants of red. i would really want to know on spoiler[how in the holy high hell did rin , sakura and that blonde girl from prisma illya became servants in the first place? especially rin who turned into ishtar of all people. the only theory i could think of is that she's the rin from the unlimited blade works route. ]
i wouldnt go that far. especially if the F/SN version you mean was the fate route and not UBW. also there was her fight against lancelot in F/Z when it was the only time she was actually emotional. the only other time she was like that with the opposite sex was of course with shiro in the fate/avalon route. |
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LimeCatMaster
Posts: 16 |
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This one's explained. They're pseudo-servants. simply put, they're just like Jeanne in Apocrypha. It's basically like possession over a host. |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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I really appreciate that bit of deconstruction and interpretation added to all of the myths, helps decode the meaning behind their stories a lot. I never thought about Atalanta or Achilles that way. Thanks!
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Spartacus in this series really bothered me than any other servant, having just somewhat recently watched the Starz series that despite upping the blood, sexuality, and big muscled naked men factors, really put Spartacus into a role of a classic hero and leader.
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Argentsky
Posts: 9 |
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I'll add a bit to the Karna gushing too.
 He's just so easy to like, and well, just really a super-duper, all around nice dude.
However, I don't feel the Apocrypha anime is a best place to start for a new fan when it comes to his character. Like @Izanagi009 says, his matter-of-fact/blunt attitude and way of speaking often makes him come off as a cold, unfeeling jerk when he's really not one at all. Also, due to time constraints and other character priorities, I feel they've minimized his parts so far. First timers watching the anime will probably feel that while he's cool and incredibly powerful, he's also stagnant and one note. I strongly think he's a character that truly shines in quieter, private moments, especially with his master. People interested should check him out Fate/Extra CCC and Fate/Grand Order, where his steadfast loyalty and inner personality really comes out. He's kind of a dork once you get to know him imo.
Are you referring to Arjuna? Unfortunately, I don't think he would be in Apocrypha since he wasn't in the novels either. I don't see him turning up, not even for a brief flashback, since it's not imperative for the story. As for popularity, I think the Indian brothers almost always come as a pair these days that it really doesn't matter. haha. On the mythology side, Karna giving away his invincibility armour always struck me hard. When Indra asked for Karna's armour, he was not only asking for Karna to give away a powerful treasure, but he was essentially asking Karna to give away a part of himself. Karna was born with his armour and so it's actually a part of his skin. In order to give it away, Karna actually had to cut it off his body. 
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marvel knight
Posts: 98 |
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He should be, he was only alluded to in the original novels since he didn't exist as an actual character but Karna wants to fight Siegfried because he reminds him of Arjuna. At this point though it's probably not going to happen since even Karna's bath scene was cut so he's not a priority for them. I don't think it would have been painful though, since his father Surya warned him ahead of time that something like that may happen. No rendition of the story ever mentioned him being in pain so I think he just peeled it off. If I'm not mistaken he has done the same in one of the Fate Extra games as well. |
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GarethXL
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You're right but not really correct Pseudo servants exist because there's a power level limit to the summoning process which means normally goddess and gods can't be summon, the only way for them to be summoned is for them to rank down and the easiest way is to possess a host who shares similar connection to them. Sure there are other special cases but mainly the easiest is to fuse with another human. As for Jeanne case she technically isn't summon by a master that's why she needs to possessed a human to anchor herself to the world |
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