Forum - View topicSuggestion From nargun
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nargun
Posts: 931 |
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This isn't going to work: stopping behaviour requires negative reinforcement, and deleting posts only offers negative reinforcement to the person whose posts were deleted. You need to be open about disciplinary actions. Not for the person being disciplined, but so that OTHER people know about the disciplinary framework before they run into it themselves. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's the thing: what negative consequences do bigots face for posting bigotry here? Well...
And you wonder why your forum is full of bigots? Three simple steps.
Yes, it's completely different to what you're currently doing. That's because what you're doing is wrong and won't work. {Combined serial posts. ~nobahn} |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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^
Make a dedicated thread in the Feedback sub-forum about this, don't put your suggestions in here. Not only is off-topic, but Admin are the only ones who can change forum policy and they are unlikely to read this particular thread. If you want something changed you've got to make sure the people in charge can actually see it. {On my own authority, I have acted upon your suggestion. ~nobahn} |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6602 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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@ nargun,
This moderator sees it differently. The aim isn't discipline; it's to maintain a welcoming, inclusive environment where people can discuss and debate an artform we all love passionately. Deleting posts that get in the way of that goal is preferable to having them sit there with an admonition. Posts get deleted because they are rude, offensive to other people, soapboxing or off-topic, not because I or my fellow moderators disagree with them. And, besides, unless a post is particularly egregious, warnings precede deletions. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16974 |
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As the moderator in question let me make something clear just so there's no confusion regarding the thread in question this stems from. My warning was the THIRD WARNING given in that thread. Willag had already left 2 very clear warnings to stop certain lines of discussion, insults, and otherwise OT discussion. She had to leave for work and asked someone keep an eye on the thread. By the time ANY moderator has to leave a third warning in a thread things are past simple gentle reminders or tweaking posts. At that point users have chosen to not listen to previous warnings and continue on whatever inappropriate behavior is the problem within that thread/discussion. Just so that point is clear.
My personal opinion on this is almost the same as errinundra. Our goal is to create a welcoming environment where people can discuss matters without fear of being talked to in a rude, ignorant, or otherwise inappropriate manner. We are not into "public shame" here at ANN nor do we condone users retaliating against other users. Admonishing a bigot in your example but allowing another user to argue against them is simply rude and not fair on our part as moderators. It makes us seem very disingenuous and hypocritical. Plus such retaliatory behavior also blatantly violates the #1 rule here at the ANN forums. Be polite. So again, public shame and allowing retaliatory remarks just won't fly here. As for why we delete posts it's simple. To not leave a thread riddled with washed out posts that can ruin the atmosphere of a discussion even further. It is simpler and more conducive to keeping positive discussion going to simply remove the posts in question. Rather than leave them there to set an example, publicly shame someone, or otherwise drag down the discussion atmosphere even more. Not to mention it goes back to the whole idea of not being rude ourselves by shaming someone publicly or making examples out of them for all to see. I also do not believe the forum is full of bigots. Just a small amount who yell very loudly and make a scene. We do ban them actually if it gets to a certain point. We don't do it immediately because we try and give users a chance to correct their actions, or at least stop the offending behavior and post more civilly. Instead of being extremely draconian and banning them right from the start with no chance to correct their behavior. The majority of users here are not bigots nor cause problems, but rather follow the rules and post in a friendly, or at least civil manner. I have to personally say I also disagree with you that stopping certain behavior REQUIRES negative reinforcement. In my experiences both online and offline negative reinforcement more often than not simply creates more problems, more disgruntled people and negative opinions, and generally only helps in the short term if at all. How things are done here have worked pretty well so far for the site. So I don't foresee the admin changing that anytime soon. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10470 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Hi Nargun,
Thanks for the feedback. I see where you are coming from, and I do see the merit in your ideas, but I prefer the way we do things... for the most part. I do not want to turn ANN into a battleground over these issues, and as much as I enjoy seeing bigots "put in their place," people don't come to ANN's forums to read that kind of thing. We've worked very hard to keep ANN's forums "on-topic" and friendly, and we will continue on that course. I would like to point out that we do ban people. There are a lot of moderated users, but there are many times more people who have been banned. Deleting / editing posts is our first resort, moderation our second, temp banning our third, and permanent banning our last. There is not hard "3 strikes" rule. People can, and do get banned for their first post. It's true that offending posts are generally deleted, so our readers don't see them, and aren't aware of what goes on. On the downside, as you said, it diminishes the visibility of enforcement. On the up-side, it improves the over-all experience of the forum. If someone shits on your doorstep, I'm sure you'll press charges (or beat the crap out of them), but you won't leave the crap on your doorstep, you'll clean it up. Likewise, we clean the crap out of our forum. -t |
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