Forum - View topicLearning Japanese?
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demonblade508
Posts: 65 |
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Hey everyone. I've had this longtime ambition to go to Japan one day to either run my own magazine involving videogames & anime. I've been into all this stuff for a number of years. I love the Japanese landscape, and their language intrigues me a lot. So yesterday, I went to Barnes and Noble and picked up some "learning japanese" books. I'm 22 years old, and I think this is an alright age to start. I've already begun to start studying it. So far it isn't so bad, it starts out with pronunciations and such. I believe I'm a step ahead, because i watch all anime in Japanese. I've learned a bit just from that.
I think I have plenty of time to learn it. I figure if I'm set by the time I'm 30 I'll be okay. I am really set on this. has anyone here ever tried or accomplished this? Let me know your sucess or failure stories. Thanks -Demon |
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android00
 Posts: 62 Location: In the middle of the Pacific by Japan and Korea |
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Well..i'd say that i am in a similar situation...
right now i am teaching myself the japanese language(without books) 1 month ago a printed the hiragana and katakana alphabets off a website and now i have completely memorized both alphabets....I know some kanji but not enough to save my life 
i pretty much have no vocabulary! I can just read the symbols! pretty lame, eh? living in hawaii, there is japanese stuff everywhere! I can read the food boxes and stuff... I want to live in japan when i get older....and i plan on doing so... but despite my lack of vocab, I can understand some sentence structure !! how far are you into learning japanese ??? do you know simple stuff like konnichiwa,arigato, jaa, ai shiteru,baka,tenshi,etc? thats pretty much all i know right now.. good luck learning japanese!!! there is this place called kanjisite.com or something... It is a great site that teaches the aspects of each alphabet and has a crap load of kanji! if you have any Q's feel free to send a message or email... jaa! ~*android00*~ |
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ShellBullet
 Posts: 1051 Location: I hit things, with my fist. |
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Much like you I studied Japanese on my own for a while, then I wised up and started taking classes. Look around in your area for some sort of adult education center or university outreach program. These types of programs are usually only a couple of hours a week and are incredibly helpful. There is just no substitute for one-on-one conversation when trying to learn a foreign language.
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nyana
 Posts: 93 |
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I can understand trying to learn Japanese for the sake of anime. However how can you guys be so sure about living in Japan when you don't know anything about it. I mean Japan is not at all like what you see in anime.
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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This'll be harsh, but I'm pressed for time:
Learning Japanese exclusively for anime, or video games, or for things directly related to pop culture, is a waste of time and money. If that's your only motivation for learning the language, think long and hard about it and see if you have another, more serious goal. If you enjoy anime, ENJOY ANIME. Don't try to understand the language. You don't need to know Japanese to karaoke to your favorite songs. You don't need to know Japanese to know (more or less) what's going on in the anime; any jokes that rely on the Japanese language typically are explained either in the translation or in notes or online. If you want to see things that won't be released in the US, you can just import region 2 DVDs and watch them raw; that's cheaper than learning the language. Trying to understand the language will take years and lots of money. If you don't have the drive and motivation you will simply watch those years roll by and in the end be unable to speak Japanese any better than all those other anime fans who thought they could learn Japanese. I'm saying this because I've seen it happen to far too many people who have done the exact same thing. They've spend sometimes 3 or 4 years trying to learn the language, but they only want to learn it because of anime and as such they never studied or concentrated because it wasn't "fun"... ... and in the end, they simply wasted their time and money, because in the end they found out that they never really wanted to learn the language after all... and because they didn't really want to learn, they never really paid attention, and have thus forgotten most of what was taught. I study the Japanese language. I'm a 5th year student. My initial motivation was anime, and thankfully my 2 years of self-study beforehand gave me enough knowledge to discover this during my first year of studying the language at the college level. I learned at college that I really liked seeing how languages worked. I also learned that I really _REALLY_ like Asian history. I decided that I wanted to learn more in these fields and stuck with learning Japanese.
No, that's not "simple stuff". That's random grammar. That's like a tourist with a half-memorized phrasebook. It doesn't do you any good in the real world.
Yes. You _cannot_ learn more than the very basics through self-study. Self-study is a good way to learn kana. Self-study is a good way to learn kanji. Self-study is a terrible way to learn grammar and phonetics, because you will not be able to see or catch your mistakes.. and thus you will reinforce many bad habits that will be hard to break. If you're serious about learning Japanese the best you can do is total immersion: Study for 2-4 years in Japan, think and talk Japanese exclusively. That's the best you can hope for. If you want to learn Japanese but can't study abroad, the next best thing is to study with a native speaker domestically. Odds are you'll either be paying a Japanese neighbor for lessons (a bad idea, as they don't know how to be a teacher) or going to a university (a better idea, because their teachers should know how to be teachers). You could still end up with a non-Japanese teacher, but because they know a lot more than you things should still be "okay".. not as good as a native speaker tho.
That's a really long time, and a lot of things WILL happen in 8 years. If you're serious about learning the language, and are in for it for the long haul, then going to a university and taking Japanese classes is pretty much your best bet. Self-study is really worthless in the long run.. 8 years of self-study would be, IMO, equal to maybe 2 years of classroom study, unless you manage to regularly converse with a native Japanese speaker.
I know a lot of anime fans who say they want to move to Japan. Have you ever looked into the process? I'll save you the trouble: They don't want you there. You cannot just move to Japan; they won't let you stay in the country more than 90 days. You can't just show up and be naturalized; the process to become a citizen is long, complex, and expensive.. it also requires high-level business or government support. More likely, you'll be able to procure a visa and stay in the country for 2-3 years.. and then you'll have to leave the country unless you can get it renewed. If you marry a Japanese citizen you'll be allowed to stay in the country and work.. but if you ever get divorced you'll have to leave again. In other words: They don't want you there. The economy's weak and political tensions are high (Thank you, N.Korea). The birth rate is down and crime is on the rise.. The last thing the Japanese government wants is an influx of permanent "gaijin" residents. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In summary: Japan is a fantasy realm for most anime fans.. but what they see is not real, and how things work is not how anime fans think they work. You can't just "go over there" and instantly be assimilated into the culture. You can't spend a few hundred dollars and learn the language overnight. Japan is more than just anime. Japan is more than just manga. Japan has a much, much richer and more complex culture than anything popular culture can ever show. If you can find a better reason to study Japanese than "for pop culture", be my guest and continue... but if anime is your sole motivation you won't last. I'll leave you with this parting thought: Watashi wa daisuki anime desu!!!111!1!1!!1111!!!11!1!1!!! urgh. |
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MelancholyDevil
 Posts: 311 Location: Louisiana |
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Wow, thanks Cookie, I'm glad you got those ideas out of my head while I'm young.
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Delthayre
 Posts: 414 Location: One of the good United States |
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Cookie's pretty much nailed it. Naivete can be charming, but it can also send you up the creek without a paddle (to say nothing of what said creek is made of).
For my part, my study of Japanese (which is actually only in it's very early stages, save for the syllaberies, which I know well) is mostly motivated by my fascination with it's structure and the endearing complexity of it's writing system. But I'm a language geek with apirations toward translation (but I'm not calling that for sure just yet), so that's to be expected. And because it cannot be expressed enough how important it is, shall reinforce: IMMERSION IS VERY IMPORTANT. Study with a native speaker of a very, very experienced second-language speaker is the only way you're going to get a handle on this or any other language. My study of German has been a real pain because it's hard to get immersion with any language but Puerto Rican Spanish where I live. Self study is good for the writing systems (although you'll probably need an experienced speaker's help with some of the Kanji). I can point you towards a pretty good website for learning Katakana and Hiragana, but it doesn't really approach some of the trickier elements of the syllabaries, but it will give you the basics and stroke patterns. There are also plenty of good books on the writing systems. And for the sake of your speaking integrity, don't try any shortcuts like "learn Japanese in 10 days" or somesuch, they don't work that well and usually stick you with a fragmentary and largely useless form of the language. And Cookie, this is really very late, but I should thank you for pointing out Haruhiko Kindaichi's The Japanese Language to me in a thread some months back. It's one of the better books on the language I've read, I found it quite enlightening. |
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Vigilante024
 Posts: 578 Location: back. but not really. |
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yes, learning a new language is very hard and while I would love to learn Japanese, it has such an interesting etymological history, I already have my plate full with Classical Latin and Classical Attic Greek (btw, there are no native speakers for these languages since no one speaks them anymore) and there are other languages I need to learn before I can take up Japanese, yes I love languages and words, and etymology...besides, how necessary is it to learn Japanese to enjoy anime? Just enjoy it for what it is and dont get too technical or wrapped up in the language...unless of course you really are gonna move to Japan and marry a Japanese person...
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Aye, I have my own experiances with German, and many friends who speak Japanese. It is very hard learning a language well enough to be competent in everyday speaking after you turn 10. It is possible, and it happens, but it takes drive and talent to do. I speak very good German, I have studied for five years including a year of homestay. I will never lose my accent. The birth langauge is to ingrained. I want to learn more, specfically Chinese and Russian, but the time involved for true mastery is long and intense, too intense for me to graduate in any amount of time. I have a roomate who is studing Japanese, partly because of anime and gaming, but also for his interest in the culture and now his growing love of the Langauge. He has spent more than a bit of time on it, and the only way he can really become profiticent is in a year when he will transfer to Todai for an immersion course. My gf is very well versed in Japanese, she studied all thru middle and high school, including an extend homestay. That helped her, but she can still only read a bit of her Kenshin. If you want to learn enough to watch anime raw, good for you, but make sure you want to make a major commitment beyond the tapes you find in bookstores, otherwise you are better off watching subs and picking up the damnest words. Like Baka, Shoujo Ai, Kawaai, and Doma arigato mistar roboto.
 And if you want better views from anime and anime related shows on what japan really is like, go watch GTO.
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SkullKnight
 Posts: 317 Location: Deep South |
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"E ad Soctum" vigilante
You really got to break it down to what you plan on doing with learning japanese. For someone like me I just want to learn how to read it, that doesn't involve nearly as much as to actually speak it. Any analytical mind with a will to decypher characters can do it. I could be wrong though. Jlist.com updates with alittle bit of Jlife every MWF its surprises me everytime. Especially about there education system, Japan would be a could place to visit but not to live. With trade and communication the way it is, is it really necessary? What is most manga written in anyway is it a mix? |
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android00
Posts: 62 Location: In the middle of the Pacific by Japan and Korea |
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I understand the 'point' that cookie is trying to make, but i am aware of what i am saying.....
i am around fluent japanese speakers all the time.....i have a true passion for japanese culture...and i am not just trying to learn japanese because of anime, manga or music.... and unlike many others, i am VERY WELL AWARE of their policies on foreigners. i know somebody with dual citizenship between US and japan..believe me, i know about the pain and agony of attempting to become a citizen of japan....and i know that japan isnt just some 'dreamland' that many otaku think it is.......i've got a taste of what japan is like....in reality show in japan called 'soko ga shiritai' it shows real lives and real culture....and it ISNT like some anime dreamworld. and you can to live there...it's called the military!(there are a few bases there, but i am sure that cookie already knows that.) its not like i was 'suggesting' living there for eternity. and anybody can waste their time and money on learning a language. life is short and you can do whatever the heck you want with it.....and i have a friend who has practically taught herself fluent korean without spending a dime... in fact, right now i am teaching myself korean,french, and japanese...and i dont care what anybody thinks, because i am gonna succeed. i leave you with this thought in mind: anything is possible.............just have dedication...which i have. 
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Geh, Classical Attic Greek. Have fun with that. I took that in high school. It was a fun class, but it didn't teach me to speak Greek so much as it taught me to hate declensions with a burning passion. Memorizing the different forms isn't such a big problem, but when we'd read passages of Socrates or Plato or what have you, I would often have trouble trying to figure out how the nouns are being used in the sentence. I much prefer prepositions (or in the case of Japanese, particles) to declensions. Of course, Greek has prepositions, too, and when they were in use I didn't have quite so much trouble.
That's not right at all. In order to learn to read, you'll basically already need to know how to speak. You won't need to know correct pronunciations (and pronunciations is the easiest part...), but you'll need to know all the same vocabulary and grammar that would be involved in speaking, plus you'll need to master the writing system, so it's even *more* work than just speaking.
Hiragana, katakana, and kanji are all used together, not as alternatives to each other, so it'd be pretty difficult to write anything of considerable length using only one of them. Manga uses all of them. |
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Bruce Lee
 Posts: 715 Location: Seattle, Washington |
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Learning Japanese, I think I'm learning Japanese.
I really think so. |
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Thrush
Posts: 10 |
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Cookie, So after 5 years of studying what level are you at now? Are you fluent? Can you carry on a conversation?
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Yuki555
 Posts: 164 Location: Georgia |
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I've tried to learn the language on my own, but it's difficult without someone to tell you if you're saying it wrong and correct you. After a few weeks, I decided to persue learning it again in college. The reason I want to learn it is because I want to be an anime artist.
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