Forum - View topic[ot maybe] Anime on dvd vs bluray/HD
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Viga_of_stars
 Posts: 1240 Location: Washington D.C. in the Anime Atelier |
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Okay on attack of the show they had a debate on weather people should start getting rid of dvd because of the new bluray and DVDHD
This will also affect the anime industry too. will they stick with tried and true dvd or upgrade like the studio have already started. When anime started on dvd it was magical. no more sub vs dub fiascos and have the best of both worlds and extras about your anime on the disc. box sets dont take up a whole shelf and the anime world said yay. but if they do switch wont bluray/DVDHD be more expensive making anime even more expensive for latest titles. plus not everyone will have a bluray/DVDHD right away. pluses i only see are that thell probably fit more stuff on one dvd. like a10 episode realease dvd or something. sigh. anyone has any insight or comment or has seen this attack of the show part. |
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DemonEyesLeo
 Posts: 844 Location: Japan |
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I haven't seen the show, but I've got some thoughts on the Blu-ray thing.
While Blu-ray/HD DVD both have spectacular picture quality, it's the expense that, at least for a few years, is going to make both be something that only hardcore home theater addicts are going to get; sort of like laser discs back in the day. So in the case of anime, I see it staying on DVD for a long while. But if Blu-ray/HD DVD do hit big like DVD did there's lots of potential. The biggest being that, because of the storage space of 25 to a reported 200GB on Blu-ray, entire 26 episode series can fit on a single disc. No more waiting months between releases, everything is on one disc. Of course there is a downside, that one disc would cost upwards of about $300, give or take. Add to that the cost of the players themselves, that's a lot of money. The potential is there, but until the Blu-ray/HD DVD become more mainstream, anime will stay on DVD. |
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Lynx
 Posts: 39 |
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I don't see anime leaving the DVD format anytime soon unless blu-ray/HD DVD becomes a boom and switching gets profitable to do so. Early on in the transition from VHS to DVD some companies still made VHS tapes and slowly weaned away from the format as the market dried up. The same may happen with this round of the format wars.
Other than generalized info such as the increased storage size of discs and better picture/sound qualtiy I'm not keen on all the pros and cons of either technology so I'm not inclined to choose a side. The only thing I'm certain of is if a complete format change is coming I'll be siding with the format my favorite releases are being released for. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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It is already beoming apparent that the DVD / hi-def DVD market will resemble the VHS / Laser Disc days. I for one was a huge LD fan and still use many of my LDs, especially the ones that have not been released as R1 DVDs. The market has been in a unique state in the last 5 years since there has been only one video format. This has caused many titles to be released (non-anime too) in multiple editions. Many films have special DTS and Superbit editions, that cost more for those home theater fans. Funimation knows this is true and has started releasing two versions of most of their new titles. I'm one of those people who tends to buy the DTS GITS and boxed Samurai 7 editions. Even better are the gorgeous Honneamise editions. People who buy these editions are most likely be early adoptors of the new HD formats. I think you will see these special sets for standard DVDs being released with Blu Ray/ HDDVD versions, since despite skeptics saying there is little difference in the HD formats, there is obviously more of a improvement compared to Superbit or DTS editions.
I've alraedy posted a few times about how poor DVD quality looks on a good 1080p sceen. Most onscreen DVD text starts to get unreadable (even upscalled with an OPPO 1080i output) if it is any smaller than the ANN banner at the top left of this screen. The miniscule Powered by phpBB at the bottom of this screen is very readable when outputed through my computer at 1920x1080. Lately I've been noticing how some shows were made with higher def resolutions in mind compared to others. The threshold is in those long shots where the character's whole body fills the screen. THis is the distance where some shows decide not to animate mouth movements when people talk. Although not too noticeable on smaller screens, it is funny to see people talk without their mouths moving, or without mouths at all. Last night I watched a Chobits episode where this was the case (5 or 6?) while Koi Kaze has amaing details including actually having whites in characters eyes in long shots. Other shows like Last Exile seem to have a weaker 3D/ 2D intergration when on clearer screens. The CG pilots in the vanships stick look really bad when on a big screen. The newer shows (which are mastered in HD) like GITS and Samurai 7 have really great detailo, as do most films. Whatever the case, the main reason why I've not bought an Blu-Ray yet is that the only player available has been the Samsung which has a Genesis cihp problem. The Sony is still on the horizon and will cost the same price, and the Pioneer will be the one I buy if it lives up to expectations. My first DVD player was a Pioneer LD hybrid (which also cost $1300) which I still use. |
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goins007
Posts: 291 |
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Well when i see 40 buck Blu-Ray and HD players at walmart then maybe i'll think about switching my DVD's over.
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I don't believe that you will be seing $40 HD/Blu DVD players since they are there for a specialty market as opposed to as a replacement for DVDs. I believe there were a few Laser Disc players that went for as low as $400, but you would expect to pay more for one with auto flip and other goodies. Even after 10 years LDs never went down in price. HD/Blue-Ray are not being targeted towards the masses. Even if this was the intention the cureent shortage on HD diodes is hindering most of us early adopters from getting one. Sony is hurting since they only have enough for 400,000 PS3 units this year, which is a good 1/3 less than X-box 360s last year. So far every high definition player has missed it's release date. I am convinced that HD and/or Blu-Ray will be the new format for us insane otaku who currently enjoy those big box sets and are willing to spend hundreds on R2 imports much like Laser Discs in the 80s and 90s. It won't replace standard DVDs, and is not being marketed to the masses.
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adonais
Posts: 302 |
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The upgrade issue is really not so clear cut, and I think for most people it makes the most sense to "wait and see". The technology is still immature and under development, and prices are also bound to come down gradually. There's also the fact that not much content exist yet which is authored in a HD native format.
I never particularly thought that anime as such would provide much incentive for upgrading to HD gear (=1080p native, in tech speak). The level of fine detail is often lower in anime than in live action - and I think that's fine, I don't mind it staying that way, it's part of the defining characteristics of anime. I personally would be rather disappointed if everything eventually became CG'd just to get more eye candy into every scene, to make it look more impressive in HD. Just because you watch something on a huge screen doesn't mean every square inch of the scene has to be speckled with fine detail. I quite enjoy watching "low-res" animes on my 50"x70" screen, they still look fabulous. Also, when looking at DVDs today, one sould bear in mind that not all standard definition DVDs are created equal, either. Many titles I have seen suffer from truly pitiful DVD authoring, not nearly doing justice to the source material. But this is a flaw in the authoring process rather than in the DVD format itself. And I speculate that this issue won't go away with HD either, there will still be "good" and "bad" HDs 
My take on it is, I'll probably upgrade to HD gear in due course, although that may be a year away or more. But my current DVD collection already looks fantastic with my high-end standard definition setup - it really doesn't need to look any better than this, as far as I'm concerned. And since they certainly won't look any worse when upsampled to HD, I don't see why I should toss them out and buy everything in HD when that becomes available (years from now). |
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vroenis
 Posts: 61 Location: Australia |
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This is precisely the issue facing current DVD quality issues. Each scene in a film should be mastered with varying bit-rates and encoding/processing filters as per the image-data, just as a collection of songs on an album need to be mastered differently. The issue at present is that many companies simply do not put any effort into authoring, lazily having a 'one size fits all' attitude towards bit-rates and encoding processes. Some of the most beautiful photography can be utterly ruined by poor digital encoding. Considering the media itself is more expensive, so too the process to press it, I have my doubts as to whether this issue will be addressed with higher-capacity media. Mastering a piece of footage takes time and effort, no matter how much space is available. |
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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Standard def DVDs have hit their capacity in my opinion. I was amazed at how much clearer the newer Geneon titles look compared to the older Pioneer titles. It's also interesting how the font went from skinny text to a huge font. The Nazca DVDs are painfully blurry. I was surprised that even the Master Keaton DVDs don't look as good as most of their newer titles.
There are really two factors. The first being how good the original transfer from film is. The second is the DVD authoring. Examples of poor film transfers and DVD encoding would be Berserk, Kenshin, Orphen, and the older Eva. You can see the film splices jitter and scratches from the film transfer, as well as digital artifacts and flaws. There are some titles that have poor film transfers and decent authoring. Eden's Bowy comes to mind, where the colors look muddy and it looks like an older transfer, but I have no digital problems. Shows that have decent film transfers buy poor coding might be the smallest category. The only ones that come to mind are all Media Blasters titles. Otogi Zoshi has a gorgeous film transfer, but the encoding has some annoying flaws, like the infamous MB flicker that I've complained about before. There are an increasing number of titles that are entering the good mastering (some are even masterer in HD) and have great coding. Most of the newer Geneon and Funimation have achieved what I believe is DVDs capacity. The traditional reference DVDs (Episode 3, Finding Nemo, Starship Troopers, Superbit Fifth Element) no longer look that much better compared to the newer anime releases. The best test I can do for judging the resolution for DVDs is by zooming in an image and see how it holds up. Granted the built in hardware on my Oppo isn't the best (I'm considering on buying a DVDO processer) but still the image looks horrendous compared to a 1080 signal. The other test that I've mentioned before is to use your non-HD tv as a computer monitor. Even if you set the font size to a huge font and the resolution low, it is a major eye sore. |
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adonais
Posts: 302 |
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Hey, ah, just an afterthought - is there currently any anime on HD? (Blue-Ray or HD-DVD)
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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AIR is being released on Bluray later this year.
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Japan and Asia like bluray more since most of thier titles are release on dvd and bluray only. On the other hand, American companies love HDdvd. I see many movies on HDdvd and dvd formats only other than Sony's titles.
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Lynx
Posts: 39 |
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Anime is slowly making a rollout on the newer formats. AnimeOnDVD has started listing some of the early upcoming releases. So far its
Blu-ray Blood: The Last Vampire Air Ghost in the Shell: Innocence HD DVD & Blu-ray Brave Story Project PAPO |
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ganami
 Posts: 40 |
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I think i'll wait to see if there is a true winner between the two,
before I start buying blu-rays or HD-DVDs. Got to see what format becomes the industrie standard, I think most anime companies will wait also. Dont want to buy a non supporting system. If anyone's going to pick a PS3 up next year it will play blu-rays. |
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Randall Miyashiro
Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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The anime industry in Japan is heavily favoring Blu-Ray. The only titles with upcomming release dates are Blood the Last Vampire, Ghost in the Shell Innocence, and Air which are all on Blu Ray only, and Project Papo and Brave Story on both formats. Sony who is the biggest backer of Blu Ray is releasing a special edition of Advent Children which is almost certainly not going to be out for HDDVD. Sony also mentioned that they will be releasing Paprika and Metropolis on Blu-Ray. I hope they will also release the Bebop movie (which had a Sony UMD release) and Memories. Steamboy is also going to have a Blu-Ray edition. Beuna Vista/Disney is also a Blu-Ray suporter, so this means that all of Miyazaki's films have good chance at being released on Blu-ray over HDDVD. Beuna Vista Japan has already set a date for GITS 2. Disney is part of BDA's board of directors along with Sony, so don't expect any of their titles on HDDVD anytime soon. Pioneer is also on the Board of directors for Blu-Ray. They also have a good relationship with Sony having had released Ah My Goddess, Appleseed, Gankutsuou, Gungrave, Hellsing, Ikki Tousen, Last Exile, Paranoia Agent, R.O.D., Sakura Wars, Samurai Champloo, Submarine 707, Tenjho Tenge, Trigun, and Viewtiful Joe on UMD. I wouldn't be suprised if they also decided to release a huge wave of titles for Blu-Ray next year after they release their Blu-Ray player. Bandai also has a good relation with Sony, and although this is speculation based of their UMD support I believe that they will also make Blu-Ray discs. They might not be as exclusive since they are not part of the board of directors liek the above mentioned companies, but they do make far more Playstation games compared to X-box games. The only studio that I can think of that is backing HDDVD is Gonzo who will also be making Blu-ray editions. The other arguement against HDDVD is the still undefined region codes, unlike Blu-ray's 3 regions which has the US and Japan under the same code. I believe it's obvious that the anime industry is heavily favoring Blu-Ray. I don't see any anime titles that are going to be on HDDVD only on the horizon, but there are going to be many Blu-Ray only titles. If HDDVD decides to put the US and Japan on different region codes it will further hurt anime fans in the States. While (topic) anime on dvd vs bluray/HD is up for debate here, I think the anime on Blu-ray vs. HDDVD is rather obvious for us fans. |
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