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GiTS:SAC/Kenshin OVA/Cowboy Bebop... Shounen?




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patch



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 677
Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 4:30 pm Reply with quote
I feel that the credibility of the classifications of the encyclopedia are in danger here, especially for these prominent titles. I'm sure there are more, but these are just two examples.

Just wondering why Ghost In the Shell: Stand Alone Complex the Trust and Betrayal is classified as shounen in the encylopedia?

I think the depth/complexity of the GiTS:SAC storyline should be enough to question the genre classification, and for Trust and Betryal, isn't this an obvious contradiction:
lexicon definition wrote:
(n.) boys; juveniles.
Demographic indicator for anime and manga aimed at boys.
trust and betrayal entry wrote:
Age rating: Mature (May contain sex, drugs, and extreme graphic violence)
Genres: Drama, Historical, Military, Psychological, Romance, Shounen


Last edited by patch on Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2005 6:33 pm Reply with quote
I asked basically the same thing fairly recently. Here is the thread.
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Nagisa
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 12:00 am Reply with quote
patch wrote:
Just wondering why Ghost In the Shell: Stand Alone Complex the Trust and Betrayal is classified as shounen in the encylopedia?


The same reason Evangelion was mistakenly listed as a comedy. Some users ignore the overall aim and tone of the show as a whole because of "that one episode where it was kinda funny that one time" or, as is more likely in this instance, "it was aimed at males because of the fanservice so it's shounen."

And, as you pointed out, "shounen" is a label for grade-school boys' titles. Ghost in the Shell, in all of its incarnations, has been typically aimed at older audiences. Older general audiences in the case of the animated adaptations. The Kenshin OVAs might be a bit trickier, as they're related to a manga and animated TV series that actually are focused on a shounen audience, but I personally think there's enough of a change in tone to warrant dropping the "shounen" label for the OVAs.
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Dan42
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:44 am Reply with quote
But remember that in the case of the encyc, "shounen" just means action/fighting (read the instructions when adding a genre). So it seems appropriate.
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Tony K.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:15 am Reply with quote
Dan42 wrote:
But remember that in the case of the encyc, "shounen" just means action/fighting (read the instructions when adding a genre). So it seems appropriate.

Then I guess Hellsing, Ninja Scroll, Vampire Hunter D, and X (TV) should all be labeled shounen titles because they have action, right?

I think there's a threshold that separates a title for adolescents/young teens (say, 12-15 years old) and older teens/young adults (16+ years), being the detailed depiction of violence, blood, and/or other mature themes like sexuality.

While Tsuioku-hen may have been published in Shounen Jump as a part of the overall Kenshin franchise, the anime version itself seems graphic enough that it probably wouldn't be considered shounen to me.

And while I'm at it, Berserk seems a bit too adult to be called shounen as well, unless sex, rape, and pedophalia are considered some things aimed towards young boys Anime dazed...
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dormcat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:17 am Reply with quote
Before anyone wants to use the original serializing magazine as the standard, I'd like to add two wierd examples: Emma was caegorized as shounen and Gokusen was categorized as josei. Go figure. Rolling Eyes
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areaseven
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:38 am Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
Before anyone wants to use the original serializing magazine as the standard, I'd like to add two wierd examples: Emma was caegorized as shounen and Gokusen was categorized as josei. Go figure. Rolling Eyes


Yeah, that's kind of weird. Gokusen was published in a women's magazine, yet the anime and J-Drama have more of a shounen feel to them.
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patch



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:20 am Reply with quote
I have suggestion.

How about removed shounen from these and adding more descriptive genres.

How bout "Action" for these instead. A little more general, but it works for these I think without causing confusion with other obvious 'shounen' anime.
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patch



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:25 am Reply with quote
Another one that really baffles me is Cowboy Bebop... Again, I think we need a more general genre for "Action" anime. I think using a age demographic based 'genre' is redudant when there already is a field for this information:

Cowboy Bebop Encyclopedia Entry wrote:
Age rating: Mature (May contain sex, drugs, and extreme graphic violence)
Genres: Adventure, Comedy, Drama, Science Fiction, Shounen
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dormcat
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 4:35 am Reply with quote
patch wrote:
How bout "Action" for these instead. A little more general, but it works for these I think without causing confusion with other obvious 'shounen' anime.

This issue has been discussed with much more depth before. Please use the search function more often.
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patch



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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Location: New York, NY
PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:30 pm Reply with quote
dormcat wrote:
patch wrote:
How bout "Action" for these instead. A little more general, but it works for these I think without causing confusion with other obvious 'shounen' anime.

This issue has been discussed with much more depth before. Please use the search function more often.


I just looked over the thread you linked to (that is over 1 year old) and it seems that no changes/resolution came out of it.

Are you telling me that the genres aren't going to change and you want to end this attempt to come up with a good resolution of this problem?
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patch



Joined: 25 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:22 pm Reply with quote
patch wrote:
Are you telling me that the genres aren't going to change and you want to end this attempt to come up with a good resolution of this problem?


I take the lack of a response as a "yes".



Another interesting contradiction, in this case in the ANN Lexicon for seinen:
ANN Lexicon wrote:
It should be noted that many of the works of anime most acclaimed for their depth and maturity (such as Patlabor, Maison Ikkoku and Ghost in the Shell) hail from the seinen genre.



I'm surprised that the staff responsible for the encylopedia have no problems with all the contradictions. For me it was very confusing, but fortunately wikipedia's article cleared up everything for me anyway, hopefully the rest of your readers can figure it out on there own.

Wikipedia wrote:
In contrast to shōnen, anime and manga for men (university age and up) is called seinen. Despite a number of significant differences, many Western fans don't make a distinction between shōnen and seinen. This is due to the fact that very few seinen manga have been published outside of Japan.
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