Forum - View topicConfusion on 'Shounen' Genre label on several series
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HitokiriShadow
 Posts: 6251 |
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I was looking at the encyclopedia entries on several series out of curiousity on whether or not they were considered seinan or shonen. Several series that seem like seinan series are, apparently, serialized in magazines classified as shonen magazines.
I was trying to see if Trigun was classified as shounen or seinan, so I looked at the other titles in the magazine it was serialized in, Young King Ours. To my suprise, Hellsing and Lone Wolf, both of which I could swear are seinan manga, are serialized in Young King Ours, which is apparently a shounen magazine. I was a bit skeptical on this and decided to see what Berserk(which I KNOW is seinan) was serialized in and what it was labeled as. I was suprised to see that Young Animal, which Berserk is serialized in, was also labeled as Shounen. So, does the encyclopedia label of Shounen cover both Shounen and Seinan? |
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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This is an argument that has been persisting on this board since the Encyclopedia first launched. A lot of titles that shouldn't be classified as shounen or shoujo are still labeled as such, despite the fact that the terms shouldn't even be considered "genres" to begin with.
I think they should just eliminate the classification altogether to end the confusion, but apart from a few select titles having the term removed, nothing's really changed. |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3794 Location: Montreal |
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*sigh*
No matter that it's written in the Genre guidelines, no matter how often we repeat it, it seems that people still don't get it
Frankly, how much clearer than this does it need to be? Maybe I should remove the "primarily aimed at" part? |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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This is slightly non sequitur, but nevertheless...
I don't claim to be an authority on the shounen genre. However, I do have what I consider a surefire litmus test for the presence of shounen elements in a storyline: In any manga or anime, the presence of the phrase 強く成りたい, tsuyokunaritai, "I want to be(come) strong(er)", is a certain indicator that this is a shounen storyline. Certainly, other genre elements may be present - but if that phrase crops up (especially if it does so repeatedly), I am not in any doubt that it is shounen. - abunai |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Allow me to remind whoever is paying attention to shounen genre criteria: here is an old discussion, including the "shounen triumvirate" (IIRC from Shounen Jump): victory (勝利), friendship (友情), and endeavor / struggle (努力).
This echoed abunai's tsuyokunaritai criteria above. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10468 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Although a good place to start, looking at the magazine a title is serialised in is not a definitive way to determine a title's genre. Often magazines will go outside their genre in order to expand their readership a bit. If a shounen magazine manages to snag a really good seinen title, they'll gain readers from the seinen market. -t |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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Would harem-themed stories that are aimed at the male audience also qualify for the "shounen" label in the encyclopedia? The whole "I want to becom stronger" isn't always as prominent in such things, so much as the male lead simply coping with/trying to win over the large female cast...
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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I'd like to see if there is a real shounen harem title without tsuyokunaritai criteria.  In Love Hina, Keitarou do wish to be stronger, both academically and romantically. Ai Yori Aoshi is more seinen than shounen.
ギャルゲー ("girl games" aka dating sims)-adapted anime are different stories. They were aimed at young adult males and have sex scenes (arguably, they can be then considered as seinen), but later they are adapted for TV and have all 18+ shots removed, so they are not shounen to begin with. |
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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Right, but I'm speaking strictly in terms of the encyclopedia labels. And I didn't say it wasn't existant, but it's not always so much of the focus. Nearly any main character of any genre will be focusing on a certain degree of self-improvement, trying to beat the bad guy/odds/whatever, otherwise there wouldn't be as much of a story. So I'm questioning whether in (shounen) harem series that's really emphasized as much as in your standard Jump/Gangan/whatever fare.
Though on a tangent, I'm personally of the opinion that "harem" is a viable genre term, as it's distinctly different from the normal romance-themed story, and examples of it exist aimed at both the male and female audience... |
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Pepperidge
Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Then why are "Comic Party" and "Tsukihime" also labeled as "shounen" in the encyclopedia? Weren't they based off of H-games? |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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You see, I don't have the exclusive control of genre determination; any user could submit one s/he sees fit.  Even if I do have such power (and I don't really want to have it) the debate would still arise. This is a very subjective topic anyway.
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Pepperidge
Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Which is why those terms really need to be removed. I mean, honestly, how are Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex and Berserk "shounen"? Not to mention Mezzo, which is based off of a hentai OVA. |
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ACDragonMaster
Posts: 405 |
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True. When you have all the other labels such as "action" and "romance", you might not necessarily need to label something as "shounen" or "shoujo".
However on the other hand, take if an anime were labeled as "harem"- it would require looking beyond the genre to figure out whether it's a harem series aimed at the male or the female audience (and there definitely are cases of both). So in that sense the shounen/shoujo labels could be used to help indicate what a particular series' target audience is, and thus gie one a better idea of what to expect. Because generally speaking, an action/adventure/fantasy that originally ran in a shoujo anthology is probably going to be distinctly different than one that ran in a shounen anthology. |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10468 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Absolutely. But as Dormcat points out, a lot of Shounen Harem shows to actually feature the "I want to become stronger" theme. But usually its more muted that a non-harem shounen series. Take for example Tenchi Muyou, not a standard harem show by today's definition, but generally seen as the original, defining harem show. Yenchi does undergo challenges and progress. If you think about it, most shounen harem still feature the shounen triumvirate that dormcat mentions. Not all are quite as bluntly about "I want to become stronger," but "victory, friendship and endeavour/struggle" are there if you look. Often times the victory, struggle and friendship are all in the protagonists relationships. "I want to be stronger" is more of an overused cliche than a defining point. Astro Boy never tried to become stronger, but the triumvirate were definitely present. -t |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10468 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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That being said, we should probably add "Harem" as a theme or genre to the encyc.
-t |
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