Forum - View topicCG Robots: Yay Or Nay?
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 960 |
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This has finally got on my nerves to the point where I decided to see what others think. So, the way things are going it seems that it's only a matter of time before 2D bots are snuffed out to make way for the full CG ones. Personally I think this is a horrible choice, as not one series (in my opinion) has been successful with this approach.
The main problem is there is a SEVERE lack of fluidity. No matter how they try, CG robots always come off as being clunky and rigid, ultimatley making for slow, uninspired, and quite frankly boring action scenes. This started off with Demonbane, but now it's practically destroyed the SRW OG anime (which suffers from every other problem imaginable), and the only thing impressive about the new Reideen is his model. As a still it's alright but in motion it's an eyesore. This next complaint mainly stems from the OG anime as well (and the recent Gigantic Formula). But I feel that the actual designs of the mecha are not done justice when rendered. Their personality is lost in favor of bland, barely textured models that at best look like a rough concept design rather than a finished product. Before anyone says anything I know the reason for this. It's cheap. Animating a 3D model takes a lot less time and effort than traditional 2D since you're not constantly copying and redrawing. However this is at the sacrifice of quality. I understand that in business the theory is to cut costs and increase profit. Do the Japanese not care about the product they are marketing? To go off on a tangent I'm even seeing a drop in quality in the heavy hitters like Naruto Shippuden as well (anyone who saw episode 10 should have noticed a severe lack of artistic quality). Really I feel like the animators are slacking off because they know they can get away with it. Are there any fans of this new wave of CG bots (and to be broad, use of 3D in general when it comes to anime)? I would like to hear an arguement for the other side if there is one. To me 3D will never be as fluid or as eye catching as 2D at this rate. Lately I've been seeing people complain about older animation as if it's archaic. In my opinion there are plenty of titles from "back in the day" that still look just as good if not better than a good chunk of what's out there today. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18268 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Before you totally bash CG animation of mecha, take a look at a little OVA series called Kirameki Project, which came out in North America towards the end of last year. It's an homage to/parody of classic giant robot series where all the giant robots are done in full CG, and I thought they looked great. The "Making Of" extras included with both volumes give an excellent look at the painstaking effort that went into rendering and animating the robots.
Now, I'm not saying that I approve of all cases of CG-animated mecha; this is a "best of the best" case, and look at Divergence Eve/Misaki Chronicles for an example of the opposite end of the spectrum. But it's one you should definitely give a chance. And incidentally, mecha generally should move at least a bit clunky because they are bulky machines, not people. I've always found the all-too-fluid movements in series like the various Gundam entries to be a distraction because it feels too unnatural. |
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Dranxis
 Posts: 591 Location: Ohtori Academy |
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I think it really depends on the designs. In most cases, I would prefer hand-drawn, but I could never imagine the Zoids, for example, being hand-done. I thought they were really well animated, especially in New Century (not so much Genesis).
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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While I also cringe at most CG robots, I have to say that I feel 3D animation does the opposite: it makes movement TOO fluid and even. Yes, robots should (obviously) be robotic in the way they move, but there's really no excuse for the poor, awkward keyframing of most 3D TV anime. I'm not against 3D animation in principle, mind you. I just have a problem with the way it's executed the way TranceLimit174 is talking about, especially in mech/giant robot shows. The only 3D robots integrated in a 2D anime I've been really impressed with are the tachikomas in GITS:SAC. If more 3D animation for machinery looked like that, I wouldn't have as much of a quibble. But I'm not exactly an expert on the mecha genre (this is only fresh on my mind because the robot animation in the recent Bokurano bothers me so much); I'm sure there are specific examples mecha fans can provide of very good 3D/2D integration and animation. I love 3D animation; it has the potential to look really beautiful and there are lots of really creative ways to use it (a la 3D mapping on painted, moving backgrounds in Tekkon Kinkreet), but I see a trend towards the over-simplified and poorly animated that doesn't bode well for future mecha titles. |
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Iwatch2muchanime
 Posts: 1291 |
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Well I personally don't mind the CG taking over, however is a Gundam comes out with fully CG Gundams (besides SD) I will shoot Sunrise in the face.
And CG isn't always bad and many have good CG bots in it. But some fail with the transition (like Transformers) while some are good from the start (Zoids) so I don't care ad long as it works for the show (Bokurano is a decent CG bot show because of how the bot is supposed to move, however Reideen doesn't cut it since they look like they're supposed to move faster). |
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 960 |
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It's funny that you mention Kirameki Project, because I've actually been wanting to check out that series since I read the review here. I really should go get it. As far as fluidity, I guess in the case of Gundam at least it's just a matter of opinion. I've always liked the the fact that they were that way. Don't get me wrong though, I don't think every robot should move like an Eva. For me it just depends on the bot. But these CG robots move similar to the mecha in a little cult PS2 game called RAD (although I thought the clunkiness was fitting in that case). At any rate Key I do not doubt that Kirameki Project will show me the possibilities of 3D mecha. But then I bet after I'm done watching it I'll probably find it disheartening that others don't seem to be following suit. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7988 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I've never been the type to complain about CG really. If they're the klunky things that look terrible like say the ones in Vandread or some of the Sakura Wars/Taisen OVAs then I can't really stand it. However, I didn't mind the use of CG in Code Geass or Kannazuki no Miko. I'd say it depends on the show.
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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I think CG robots can be fine, IF they meld well with the 2D. Very few series even come close. Bokurano, for example, looks pretty hideous when the bots get involved. I also REALLY hate the new Transformers series, because they used the CG as an excuse to make bulky, junked up looking robot versions, which would have been a huge pain to actually draw. Forcing people to draw those monstrosities might have kept them in check.
The worst "crime" an anime director can do in this case, however, is to allow fully rendered CG robots to interact with cell-shaded 2D characters. Stylistically, a CG robot in an anime should look exactly as though it were hand drawn, at least while it's at rest. If they can manage this using human character in videogames such as Rogue Galaxy and Naruto Shippuden Accel, it should be a no brainer to achieve it with innanimate objects in an anime. |
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LuckySleven
 Posts: 426 Location: Refer to page 2 |
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yeh i think i would prefer non-cg mech because i find it more vivid to look at and there is that kind of awkward movent of the mech that makes you want to throw up. i watched that stupid sd gundam force and was like "wow, the character movements are so homo." though most of the movements was them just flying around and getting shot.
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10円
Posts: 605 |
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I personally cringe at most mechs no matter how they're drawn. However, speaking about 3D effects, I actually really enjoyed Metropolis. Does anybody else remember that movie? It's yet another favorite of mine that almost never seems to get any attention on here.
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Iwatch2muchanime
Posts: 1291 |
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Well a lot of people I know hate that movie. But I love it, almost hit that sad ending that I don't like then became a great ending to an entertaining movie, not to mentian good animation and Superman background music.........wait a minute. |
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jetz
 Posts: 2148 Location: Manila, Philippines |
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Nay for me.
Agree.. They tend to look bulky too, but they are robots. You can't expect them to move too flexibly.
I honestly didn't know using CG costed less, I always thought CG was used as a way to say "If you got it, flaunt it" type of thing.
I prefer 2D too since (let me say this at the risk of sounding sappy yet again) it took a lot more blood, sweat and tears to get it done and the passion of the creators seeps through. However, if CG is used minimally and as a way to compliment the 2D graphics then that wouldn't be so bad. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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I think the general consensus is that it depends on how well the CG is done. I'm currently watching Divergence Eve and will agree that the CG is pretty bad and does not mesh with the 2D at all. The worst that comes to mind is the CG in the really awful Geisters. I agree that many newer shows seem to integrate the 3D really well. The mecha in Jinki Extend blends really well with the 2D, and I will also second Kanazuki no Miko.
I also found the Bacu's in Gundam Seed to be over animated and rather annoying. There are a just too many short cuts in Seed's and Destiny's animation for my taste. Sunrise tries to get the biggest bang for it's buck (yen) but ultimately it has the opposite effect here. |
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Hazumu-san
 Posts: 76 Location: Michigan |
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I liked Metropolis too. The CG was well done in that movie. I think it all depends on the animation team and the amount of time they spend (or are given) integrating it into the 2D work. On a personally level, mecha look neat but I am more interested in the story, so long as the CG doesn't mess up the show I can live with it. |
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Kouga13
 Posts: 113 Location: Canada |
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I enjoy how on the back of Metropolis it states violence and 'images of destruction' =D. But what was wrong with Vandread? Gonzo Digimation has been doing a good job in my opinion.
There's bad animation out there and there is and will be more bad CG out there so just support the ones that do it well. Anyways unless a less tedious process is discovered for hand animation CG will become more prevalent. |
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