Forum - View topicWhy do fan translators leave honorifics in when .......
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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When some of the characters aren't Japanese? It makes no sense at all why an American or someone from medieval England, or a Frenchman would be using Japanese honorifics. Its entirely unrealistic and it completely ruins the whole experience. Someone from Medieval England wouldn't refer to the other characters as "san" or "chan" or "kun" or "sama", because people from England don't use Japanese honorifics. It's completely idiotic why some translators would leave it in.
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Pityless/Envy
 Posts: 101 |
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I'm guessing that the people who do that really weren't thinking it through. It could be a part of the original text as well.
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Blackpeppir
Posts: 234 |
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Yeah, I noticed that as well, while it's nice to see them left in some manga, the ones that take place in Japan, it really does bug me when characters who have no reason to use them do so. Makes you feel like the entire cast is a bunch of japanophile otaku, y'know the ones that try and "spice up" their english by sprinkling it with poorly used Japanese.
I mean, personally, I see it as a mark of a good translator. The good ones who tend to know what they're doing generally leave them where they should be and know enough to remove them when they shouldn't be there. Where as the translators who are newer or don't know as much about Japanese tend to either over use them or use them inappropriately. However I could be dirt wrong and they're just left in because they're there in japanese and the translators are translating word for word so as not to incur the wrath of purist fans. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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While I can see your point, it really comes down to what purpose honorifics serve in the Japanese language. They are quite important when it comes to showing character relationships and so by taking them out you will lose at least one level of meaning from the conversation.
That said, I can see discretion being used in such cases. At very least, -san can be translated to English without much trouble and so I don't mind seeing it taken out. And -sama as Lord/Lady works decently well in some situations too. But at the same time, the original text is in Japanese. To accurately translate it, honorifics must be taken into account. The ethnicity of the characters does not change that. But I definitely agree that in many ways it would make more sense to try and find equivalent translations in cases where the characters would not really be speaking Japanese in the first place (the best example I always love is watching Rose of Versailles, where the Austrian Marie Antoinette in is France and speaking Japanese). |
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LKK
 Posts: 426 Location: Virginia, USA |
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On a related note, I've often wondered why the Japanese mangaka use their native honorific system for manga set in non-Japanese environments. This is particularly noticeable for series set in the West where the honorific system is not as complex as the Japanese system. Do they not know about the differences in the social structure? Do they know and not care?
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Blackpeppir
Posts: 234 |
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For the same reason that english authors will do stories in which people in medieval France or people in Germany are for some reason speaking in english, because it makes sense to the target audience. I mean look at "The Hunt for Red October" they're on a Soviet sub, the captain is Scottish and nobody on the sub seems to speak Russian or even have a Russian accent. It's the same way with japanese authors using honorifics for non-Japanese people. The target audience is japanese, ergo they speak in a way that the target audience will find familiar and interesting enough to get into the story.
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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Yes, but professional translators are able to find ways to remove honorifics and translate what the character is saying without losing any meaning of the original text. But, l guess that why they're professionals
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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Sometimes the translators will add them in because they're "super-kawaii"
Well, that's only because the person reading the book can understand what the person is saying. I mean there has to be some exceptions, a person isn't going to learn multiple languages just to read a book. Then no one buys your book because it's in a different language and then the author loses his home because he couldn't make enough money from the book he wrote to pay his bills. |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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For additional examples of foreign characters speaking English, I recommend the film Valkyrie (the recent one with Tom Cruise in the leading role).
The reason why they don`t have accents is because to a German/Russian/French person etc., if they were speaking in their native language, they would sound as though they have no accent. This translates (pardon the pun) into English as either an American or British accent, which to us, would sound perfectly natural. |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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In some cases, I'm sure they are. But just because a translation is done by a professional doesn't necessarily mean it's the best. While this is about the anime, not the manga, I think this is still applicable. In Gunslinger Girl, the sub never references the fact that Guise and Jean are brothers, despite the fact that Guise uses oni-san (IIRC). In this case, the characters would of course most likely be speaking Italian, not Japanese, but not actually translating this term at any point really takes away from the quality of the translation, especially since this is a case where the term is being used literally, instead of figuratively as is often the case. Last edited by marie-antoinette on Sun May 10, 2009 9:20 am; edited 2 times in total |
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AU_Gundam
Posts: 54 Location: Cebu, Philippines |
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It could also be because of personal taste, but that aside, some would leave them out so that one may learn a little more about the Japanese language and that certain, english honorifics can be equated to the japanese ones presented.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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If it's a fan translator, then their thought process is, "Oh, I'm getting to translate this so that people will notice my Japanese skills that I've been learning for the past semester." Basically they think they are ready to work in Japan when they have no idea what they hell they are even doing. Get your degree first then worry about how you're going to translate your assigned piece of work at your job.
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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As for why fan translators do it...well, I suppose fighter's explanation accounts for some of the story. My theory is that in general, people who consume fan-translated anything (fansubs, scanlations, game patches, etc.) like honorifics and prefer that they be included. In fact, they'll complain if the honorifics are translated or removed. So to cater to community preferences and avoid criticism, scanlators leave them in. |
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Hannish Lightning
Posts: 376 |
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I heard about that with Del Ray. But, do they keep in honorifics in all they're series? |
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I can't say if they have them in all of their series but Del Rey certainly has them in a lot. Their page explaining honorifics says they appear throughout Del Rey manga though, so I'd expect it to be all of them, at least all of the newer ones to be translated.
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