Forum - View topicwho do u prefer in gundam seed destiny, kira or shinn?
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The King Of Darkness
Posts: 2 Location: minerva |
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i think kira is muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch cooler
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Athrun is a good character, despite the rather rocky development he's been receiving lately, but Shinn definitely has to be one of the most intriguing protagonists the Gundam franchise has seen.
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The King Of Darkness
Posts: 2 Location: minerva |
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i think shinn is an aragant dude that thinks he IS all that wen he wishes the force impulse is as cool as the freedom, athrun is also cool, the way he punch shinn in the face in episode 35 made me REALLY happy!!!!!
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Andrew Waltfeld & Murrue Ramius. They're just about the only characters in Destiny that haven't been completely f*cked up by the horrifically poor quality of the series' writing, so I'm just going to write them in here.
Seriously though, Kira, Shinn, and Athrun have all been irreparably damaged by the fact that Fukuda & Morosawa have effectively run Destiny into a brick wall. Last minute changes in the story, dropping numerous subplots, pandering shamelessly to screaming fangirls, changing their minds at least three separate times as to who's the lead character and who's good or evil, it's all dragged the series down. Shameful, given that Shinn, at least when the series started, had immense potential to really be one helluva lead protagonist. But instead of developing him properly, they just buried him into the background until just recently and haven't even bothered to attempt to develop him beyond his anger. He's not some "Anakin character," he's a victim of shitty planning on the part of the producers, plain & simple. Kira & Athrun are, too. Athrun already did this "what should I do with myself?" bit in SEED, and we don't need to see it again (especially since it's been stealing massive spotlight from Shinn, who was SUPPOSED to be the lead character here!). And Kira keeps flipping back & forth between being an obnoxious, self-righteous ass and the infallible oh-too-perfect hero. It's frustrating to watch, because there was so much that could've been done so right on so many occasions in the story, but simply wasn't. |
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Pepperidge
Posts: 1106 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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The show still isn't beyond salvaging. If things play out well in the next few episodes, we could be in for quite an exciting conclusion, but that still won't solve the problems that the series saw getting there. The ratings have been just good enough to justify a possible third SEED series, so hopefully if they do make one more attempt they'll address a lot of the problems that arose in Destiny. (ie: set it no less than 8-10 years after Destiny, NO Kira or Athrun, ensure that other surviving characters have nothing more than bit roles) Of course, at this point the most I'm hoping for is a Lunamaria image song. |
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Super Arrow
 Posts: 334 Location: Australia |
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Ooh, Annoying Angst VS. Annoying Angst.
What a great Topic!
Can't wait for Double Destiny Starring Murrue! |
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zaphdash
 Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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A third SEED series needs one thing above all: a new creative staff. For all the complaints about Destiny, there's something people are forgetting or neglecting to mention: SEED suffered from many of the same issues, although they were decidedly more subdued. Major changes were made on a whim during the course of SEED, too, but because the lines separating the various sides were much more clear and the show didn't feature essentially two separate casts competing for screentime, it wasn't quite as noticeable. So the problem here is not unique to Destiny, it's a problem with Fukuda and his wife; this is a pair of people that should never be put in charge of another anime again. The other thing that another series would need is for whoever's in charge to realize that the race war angle has been played out. It was bad enough in UC when someone always had a bone to pick with the Federation and a whole f'n army to back it up, but at least they occasionally had different things to fight over. The Natural vs. Coordinator thing is done; after this series, let it rest. LOGOS is an interesting, if terribly unoriginal, development, and depending on how the show ends, perhaps that could lay the groundwork for the next story. Even better than that, though, would be an idea Mark Simmons posted to the GML about a possible SEED 2 plot, long before Destiny was ever revealed (perhaps even before SEED ended, but I don't recall for certain). His idea was about a show focusing on the exploration of the outer solar system, centered perhaps around an investigation of Evidence-01 (the space whale), at least initially. He didn't provide a whole lot of detail about where such a series could go, but a major war would probably never take place, or at the very least would never be at the forefront of the show. It's a really interesting idea that would basically be completely original in Gundam: a story without a war. Could be very intriguing if done right, although it certainly runs the risk of alienating the present audience if the show takes such a drastic turn. Unfortunately, a Gundam show without a war probably would never happen, and the easiest way I can see to incorporate a war into this basic framework would be to have a secret society that, for some reason, wishes to suppress the investigation; however, the secret society card has obviously already been played by Destiny in a much less interesting context. I don't even mind if Kira or Athrun appear in more shows, but they need to fill the same type of role that Mu had in SEED: the seasoned veteran who serves as mentor to the new kid. Athrun was obviously given the opportunity to do just that in Destiny for Shin, Rey, and Lunamaria, but he's been handled terribly by the creative staff and has obviously failed miserably in that capacity. It's really amazing just how poor an officer Athrun seems to be, but I guess in the ZAFT military, mobile suit skills and personal connections can carry you a long way. In any case, I should probably hold speculation (or rather, wishful thinking) about a possible SEED 3 at least until I know how SEED 2 is going to end. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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There's a slim chance, but given the horrific methods of writing that have been put into the first 40 episodes, the last ten will need a magical epiphany on Fukuda & Morosawa's part to pull them out of their comfort zone, pandering, returning character crutches, arbitary subplot dropping, & frequent mind-changing in order to even have a ghost of a chance. |
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Super Arrow
Posts: 334 Location: Australia |
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And now I recommend G-Gundam to zaphdash...since that Series didn't have a war in it.
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Actually, I happen to know from experience that zaphdash is really very fond of G Gundam. Must've simply slipped his mind that it didn't involve an actual war per se, but I can assure you the elitist attitude you continue to cop with just about everyone here is highly unwarranted in this situation (among numerous others). |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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I had a feeling after I had finished my post that someone might mention G Gundam, but I was too lazy to bother editing it for further explanation. As Nagisa mentioned, G Gundam is actually one of my favorite Gundam shows, but I don't think it quite counts as a show without a war. It certainly didn't involve a war in the traditional sense, but it was still very much centered on robots fighting in an alternative form of warfare, and even Imagawa couldn't resist ending the show with Gundam's traditional ginormous space battle. I don't remember too many details of Mark Simmons' idea, since it's been quite some time since he posted it to the GML, but I don't recall there being much of an armed conflict to speak of in it. It would basically be a sci-fi show that happens to take place in the Cosmic Era timeline and can build on a few of the elements that have already been mentioned there (ie, George Glenn's space exploration, Evidence-01, etc.). We would, perhaps, see mobile suits in some alternative capacity (construction, exploration outside the main ship(s), etc, just for a few quick possibilities), but we probably wouldn't see thirty separate Gundams taking each other on. G Gundam is a show with a novel approach to war, but this idea for SEED 3 is a show that literally does not have a war to speak of, which is why it has about a snowball's chance in hell of ever being made. But the basic concept of exploration and investigation could still be twisted around to include a war if it'll satisfy Bandai, as I touched on in my other post, and it'd be nice if Sunrise tried to take the franchise in that sort of direction. Unfortunately, that won't happen as long as Fukuda's in charge, since he's already said he has no intention of following up on Evidence-01 and he somehow compared it to the war in Iraq in one of his various interviews. But there's nothing wrong with wishing for it anyway. |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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You know zaphdash, your suggestion of taking Gundam outside of the context of "there's a war going on" reminds me of a similar move made by another sci-fi franchise that was critically acclaimed and adored by fans.
Can you (or Nagisa) guess it? |
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zaphdash
Posts: 620 Location: Brooklyn |
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Well, the space whale and the idea of deep space exploration remind me of Macross 7 (which could even have been the inspiration for the idea), but that certainly still had fighting in it, so I'm not sure if that's what you've got in mind. Kind of depends on whether "critically acclaimed and adored by fans" is referring to the franchise itself or the move away from the warfare angle. The Macross franchise could fit the bill there, but Macross 7 certainly doesn't. Right off the top of my head, that's all I can really think of. I'm afraid that outside of some mecha anime (which is largely, but not completely, limited to Macross, Patlabor, and Tomino shows), I don't really watch much scifi anime, so there's a pretty good chance it's a show I've not seen. |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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Now, I never said it was a sci-fi anime - just a sci fi franchise.
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11433 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Haha, I thought you were trying to be tricky  . Hm.. I don't watch too much sci-fi, but I really like Star Trek. I never watched the first one with Shatner (I wasn't born yet), but I've seen just about all of TNG, DS9, and Voyager.
However, I think I recall a few wars here and there; The Borg, The Dominion/Gem'Hadar, and I guess Species 9472. Technically, those are wars or maybe just small battles, but I like how the overall context and premise of the series is to "explore new worlds and better mankind, (yadda, yadda, yadda).." This is probably the wrong answer, and sorry if this sounds completely cheesy (First Contact is my favorite movie of all time, by the way  ).
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