Forum - View topicFlag: why do they have to make up a conflict?
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poilk92
 Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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I am watching Flag and though I would like to focus on the unique presentation and solid characters the plot and setting keep on nagging at me. In this anime the relation to real world conflicts in Iraq Afghanistan and Kashmir I don't see why they made up a country, religion and war when they could have just set it in an actual one. Also this is an story about the middle east and there are no Muslims, instead they have Buddhists and some made up religion. I don't understand that decision, because for an anime obviously trying hard to be taken seriously it threw any chance at realism out the window. Lastly there are plenty of morally questionable things western powers do in the war on terror, you don't need to make up things like bombing civilians for absolutely no reason to make the audience think war is bad we get it already (And come on, the UN? The UN doesn't actively fight anti-terrorism wars in th middle east, if you are going to send a message about US aggression just come out and say you are talking about the US).
So far I am actually pretty interested in this series but I think if the creators decided to make Afghanistan or Kashmir with giant robots it would have been much better. But I have noticed that the Japanese never like showing the US with super advanced giant robots... Maybe they are still upset over the whole nuke thing |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Welcome to fiction. This kind of stuff is everywhere.
Just wait until you get to Flag's spoiler[incredibly pointless ending], that's a bigger issue I had with the show. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18362 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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That's not a made-up religion. A lot of the religious details in that series (especially the stuff about the "living goddesses") are based on actual circumstances in Nepal. A fictionalized setting heavily based on real-world locations and situations was used so that the writers could make a series which strikes close to home while still enabling them to customize certain details to suit their purposes.
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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but they don't really use the fictional aspects to expand their message. It is painfully obvious that though the factions in the show are the UN the Buddhists and some other religion they are really talking about US counter terrorism. It is painfully obvious that it was their intent to have commentary on the mid east so why hide it?
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v1cious
 Posts: 6217 Location: Houston, TX |
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Really? I thought the ending was fantastic. I loved how they didn't pull any punches. spoiler[The whole point of the story was to show how reporters and photographers sacrifice their lives on the battlefield to get the story out. Saeko's death was to signify that war never ends. Whenever one conflict is over, another pop ups immediately after.] I personally think this series is severely underrated. Sure it's a little gimmicky, but the writing carries it along. Last edited by v1cious on Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Out of deference to people who actually live in the Middle East and Western Asia? Because making up a story and setting means greater artistic control and freedom? Could be a combination of the two. I appreciated how FLAG moved out of the "traditional" setting of the Middle East and had a more Asiatic feel to it. Perhaps Takahashi wanted to differentiate this series from his earlier work Gasaraki, which drew obvious parallels with the first Gulf War (made in 1998, it preceded the American-led invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq). |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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It wasn't even in a war though, spoiler[she died in a terrorist attack that was probably a cover for a black ops assassination of her because she knew too much about the mechs and gave her friend classified data.] |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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@dtm
But my point is the setting is no different than a place like Kashmir or Afghanistan except for the names of the factions. They did not utilize this extra creative freedom they could have had the same story but in a more serious setting if they weren't so worried about offending anyone. Different religious sects fighting it out in a country with no central government occupied by a western power which is currently fighting an insurgent force which consists of dejected citizens foriegn fighters and suicide bombers, hmmmmmmm they really thought outside the box and stretched that creative freedom as far as it could go. I honestly think its less respectful that they are obviously depicting real world factions but pretending they are not. Its a fine show but I think it could be better if it was giant robots in Afghanistan instead of of giant robots in Made-up-istan. By the way it is very uncreative and unoriginal to have your conflict in some unnamed/made up middle eastern country its done constantly in anime, video games and movies Personally I think they set it with imaginary factions and an imaginary country because they were worried about offending the Muslim community which is offensive in its own right because your basically saying "well we can depict Buddhists and the UN as murderers but we can't do that to Muslims because they might do something crazy!" |
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v1cious
Posts: 6217 Location: Houston, TX |
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I guess I didn't read that deep into it, because I didn't get that impression. Also, spoiler[ if Saeko was killed for knowing too much, then why didn't they kill Keiichi as well?] |
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Helociraptor
 Posts: 44 |
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Partly agreed. Afghanistan yes, giant robots, rather not. When using a real world conflict I think you have a responsibility to stay with pure facts as much as possible. By injecting drama and making things up you are in great danger to create propaganda. You also need to check your facts painstakingly, because getting things wrong is simply not acceptable when dealing with actual history or - especially - a still ongoing conflict. I would really like a show to depict the conflict in Afghanistan, but it should stick to facts, so no giant robots please. My answer to your question is thus: They might have used a fictional setting, because then the obligation to tell the truth and stick to pure facts does not apply. That might or might not be why they did it, it is just something I could imagine.
If quite some muslims weren't actually behaving like this you might have a point. When was the last time buddhists burned down buildings and rampaged through cities, because somewhere else in the world the free press of a democratic, sovereign nation published some cartoons? Or when was the last time buddhists murdered someone, who dared to criticise their beliefs? I can't remember, really. You can criticise buddhists all day long without risking life and limb, but criticise islam and your life is in actual danger. I think it is a mistake to let religious fanatics scare one into self-censoring, or to apply a misguided idea of tolerance to extremists. Wrong, misguided? Perhaps. But offensive? I don't think so. |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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To your first point, Helociraptor, I don't think anyone is looking at anime and saying "hey wait a minute thats not what happens in the real world" just because you use a real world setting doesn't mean you can't have a fictional story or even call it "near future" and include sci fi elements like robots. Hell video games, books and movies do that all the time!
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Kruszer
Posts: 7991 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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spoiler[Who's to say they didn't. All we see in this series is what's recorded on film. Or maybe they couldn't because he went public with the whole story and both their footage and that's what the anime is...some kind of expose' by him. Hard to say.] |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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Key hit it right on the nail. If they actually set it in Iraq in modern time then they'd instantly limit themselves. Sadly we don't actually have mecha like they do in FLAG and I'm quite sure most people watching it would be quick to point that out. By putting it into a fictional context they are able to create plot points and technology that doesn't actually exist in real life. And look at other shows that do this exact same thing. Gundam 00, Area 88, Ghost in the Shell, Astro Boy, Full Metal Alchemist, heck even Star Wars. All of these are set in a fictional reality yet use this setting to parallel actually events and issues. Also, if you look at Japan's cinematic history they haven't been big fans of modern war films. Most of the war movies and tv shows are either set in the times of Samurai or in the future. Unlike America, where war films are made just about every year and usually do quite well in the box office, Japan seems to keep away from this and tends to prefer sci-fi wars films or period pieces movies. |
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poilk92
Posts: 433 Location: Long Beach California |
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@helociraptor
tbh you have a good point, and I can't hold the creators to my personal standard that you shouldn't be afraid of terrorists because then they win. @eveyone else You can have a fictional story in a real setting, its ludicrous to say you can't. And no one is looking at anime for a sense of realism or thorough fact checking to say otherwise is just silly. My point is that the show would be no different if they did not beat around the bush and made a show that was "Near future Afghanistan with giant robots" instead of "Near future Made-up-istan with giant robots". The only argument that makes sense is helociraptor's, that they were afraid of possible backlash and didn't want to offend anyone |
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Dolza
 Posts: 93 Location: Chicagoland |
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I believe they "made up" a conflict to allow more creative freedom. Using a real country would have placed limits on things - for instance - locations would have to conform to what we know. The mountain temple would be difficult to find in the real world. It also avoids any possible discussion of person X in the anime = person Y in the real world guessing games.
And while the UN type tanks looked very much like M1A1s, and the Osprey type transports for the Mechs, their capabilities would be restricted to what we know they can do. :steps on soapbox: Now, I will say that I think that Flag was really not given the level of support it should have by anime fans when it came out in 2006. With all the complaining about how all series are the becoming the same - how can you expect the studios to make things that are original and well written if we don't support them when they do come along? Flag was one of the best of the past 5 years, yet does not get much recognition outside a few voices. (see review here: animenewsnetwork.com/review/flag/dvd-1) It has only 204 ratings here, yet something as poor as Pilot Candidate gets 10 times that many. I also thought the ending was great. Especially the extended few seconds on the animation for the end credits. :stepping down: |
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