Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Did Saint Seiya Bomb In North America?
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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It was hyped like nothing else that year, and it also immediately got its own Disney Infinity figurines. To my knowledge, it was the first movie to get Disney Infinity figurines as soon as the movie came out, and they soon wound up in clearance bins. My guess is that Disney expected it to be another Pirates of the Caribbean: Revival of a decades-dead movie genre with Johnny Depp in a semi-leading role and Jerry Bruckheimer as the producerand director, and with similar marketing approaches with a summer blockbuster-style release. With John Carter though, the title is ambiguous. What's so special about a man named John Carter? The Shawshank Redemption bombed in a similar way: What's a shawshank, and why is it such a big deal that it's redeemed? I think that if the movie were renamed John Carter of Mars, as the books were called, it would've fared better. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6080 |
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At the very least though thanks to the movie's failure Disney won't be bombarding us with sequels that wear out the franchise's welcome much like what happened with POTC. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 551 |
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Well DBZ was seven years old and just finish airing in Japan when it came out in the US in 1996. While Saint Seiya was at least 18 years old when it first came out in the US. Big release gap between the two. |
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Mewzard
Posts: 187 |
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Fair enough, though Saint Seiya and the original Dragon Ball started the same year and from the same company. |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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The bishounen look of the characters might actually be a reason. American fans of Dragon Ball Z like to say the Faulkner music score and dub voice actors are better because they make the show more manly and gruff. When they find out it was originally more goofy and Goku had a more feminine voice they say its jarring. I can see American viewers finding the characters too girly looking. There does seem to be a stigma against action shows that dont conform to the macho standard.
I would say it's the exact opposite actually. Americans have far less exposure to anime and manga so they really only get to see what airs on American TV, which is usually heavily censored and dumbed down. The most popular anime in America is stuff like Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Pokemon, and all the other stuff that aired on Toonami or for kids. I'm not sure that's really refined when your scope is so limited and only action shows aimed a little kids find traction. Shows that didn't conform to that like Detective Conan and Gintama bombed. Not to mention the lack of a shoujo/josei market like Japan has. Japan seems a lot more open minded when it comes to anime. Which isn't surprising considering they make the stuff. -Stuart Smith |
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PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2027 |
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Yes, but in 2003, DBZ was still very, very huge. The Majin Buu episodes were still premiering on Toonami. I would argue that was when DBZ was in the peak of it's popularity here.
I don't think the original Dragon Ball is a good comparison though. Yeah it premiered in 1986 and was a modest hit on Toonami from 2001-2004, but I doubt it would've done well were it not for the established DB brand (it bombed on two previous attempts here before we got DBZ). Even then, it never came close to DBZ's popularity. Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979 bombed hard on Toonami, and that might be a better example, though that also had an established brand helping it. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5897 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Actually, the first book from which the movie starts, was called "The Princess of Mars". Disney thought males would have run away screaming with a name like that, but that would have been easily solved with the right movie posters. Some of the book covers clearly showed that these are warrior princesses, like Xena, rather than Disney princesses. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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All the more puzzling why Disney dropped the "of Mars" suffix.
That being said, it's age-old wisdom in the toy business that toys related to Mars, unless it's about space exploration, don't sell. So maybe it was based on that.
I'd like to add that kids tuned in to DBZ for the colossal over-the-top fights between manly muscular characters and the rock guitar soundtrack that accompanied it, but Dragon Ball had none of that. Instead, it was a rather comedic set of adventures of a little boy. I stuck around with Dragon Ball for as long as I could and bought the manga from Viz, though I knew plenty of classmates who loved DBZ but couldn't stand Dragon Ball. Regarding Sant Seiya though, I'd still stand by the thought that it bombed in the United States because it looked too old. I'd say Mobile Suit Gundam bombed for the same reason. |
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thecritter
Posts: 69 Location: Northwest GA |
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Everyone has his/her own reasons. For me, the problem was that it was childish, unwatchable crap. Your mileage will likely vary. A bunch.
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1783 Location: South America |
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I was talking about the hardcore North American fans, those that have watched 500 series or more and have been fans for a decade or more, tend to have a more refined taste for anime than those Japanese Aniota who only remember the last stuff and buy the body pillows. Of course, the people with the most refined tastes in animation are probably the Japanese animation critics: people who teach animation in Japanese universities and those that are hired to judge stuff on the Japan's Media Arts festival. Those are true animation experts. |
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Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9887 Location: Virginia |
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@leafy sea dragon
A Princess of Mars is quite literally pulp fiction. The book was originally printed in the pulp magazine All Story as a serial between February and July of 1912. It is the first book by Edgar Rice Burroughs author of Tarzan. The hero John Carter was a Confederate Civil War veteran transported to Mars by dreaming. Women on Mars wore only bejeweled leather straps. Men also wore only leather straps intended to hold weapons. Dejah Thoris the princess in question specialized in being captured/rescued. After following the story for six months, readers were outraged to find the book ended on a cliff hanger. I thought this book was great when I read it in high school. When I tried to re-read it in my thirties, I found it unreadable. |
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PurpleWarrior13
Posts: 2027 |
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I think the show was always more than that. Once people sat down and watched it, they were drawn into the story, characters, and artwork. I think it has plenty of appeal beyond just the reasons you stated, though those certainly helped. I was 7 years old in 2001 when I first discovered it, and I was obsessed with the storyline and characters. I knew it inside out (and I started with the Goku/Frieza fight)! It was the first show I ever watched that HAD an ongoing story, and I thought it was the coolest thing. I actually did know plenty of people that preferred the original Dragon Ball (once they actually watched it). There weren't a ton of people that watched it though, and it's not too well-remembered. It didn't even get a proper R1 DVD release until 2009. Last edited by PurpleWarrior13 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Heh, that sounds like pulp fiction from that era all right.
Pulp fiction can work as movies though. After all, we got Pulp Fiction (which I know isn't based on anything in particular but follows in the style of pulp literature). |
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Sailor Sedna
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Reasons I know of are probably the timing, and DiC screwing up the show also, with a horrendous script filled with stupid dialogue like "Geez! Where did you train? The video arcade?"
Don't forget on how the Saints were bleeding "mystic energies/sweat", which was blood colored blue 
This Amazon review explained it best here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/RUIDXKZ16BY6V/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_rvw_ttl?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B000159F9Q Listening to a bit of the dub though, I actually found it as a "so bad it's good" thing though. 
Unfortunately, with the exception of DVDVerdict, I haven't found any good critic/reviewer review on Saint Seiya, including the review on this website here (though I do respect their opinion). 
From what I've seen on review sites, lots of critics have criticized the art and such, to me it's mostly fine, though there are some...ahem, brilliant stills like this (pictures 3, 5, 6 and 8 look fine though): http://amusing-saint-seiya.tumblr.com/post/121072409744/red-rotes-quality-andromeda http://amusing-saint-seiya.tumblr.com/post/121510721539/neocargalpha-more-quality (Who even animated episode 9? )
Then again, not everything appeals to everyone. And how is the art exactly dated? Is it because they don't do hand drawn cels now? Just wondering. It still looks good to me; I say it's more old school, and to quote James Rolfe, dated/outdated is something you never want to go back to or look at. Then again, I'm more of a fan of 80s/90's anime art than modern ones. One person said a reason it bombed here was because it was "too old?" I don't think an anime series has to be "really old" in order to be successful somewhere. Hopefully since it's the series' 30th anniversary, something could be done like a new English dub that could get it big in America...let's cross our fingers and hope. |
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