Forum - View topicCoolest Character Tournament - Post-Mortem
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Well, that's pretty much it for the minigame. Mow kept things close for a long time, but Olliff pulled away in the late game. There might be a little shifting, but the top 3 are set. Coincidentally, the other time Olliff won, it was also by a 19 point margin (regardless of whether Spike or Balsa wins here, that isn't going to change). In a notable first, Olliff led the minigame for the entire tournament.
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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VOTING FOR: Balsa
From a statistical perspective, I still believe Spike had the edge despite struggling with the Count based on his status as being perceived as not only the most iconic anime character in recent memory, but also the coolest. However, based on my criteria of what is cool, Balsa has Spike beat on many more fronts. Not only is Balsa a more admirable character, she is also much more well rounded, complex, emotionally grounded, and intelligent. Spike's cool is very much reliant on his aura, attitude, and style. Unlike Spike, Balsa backs her up her cool with her many accomplishments compared to Spike's unending pattern of failures and general laziness. Aylinn gives a good example of one of Balsa's accomplishments:
On this same line of argument, Balsa's tough love, but still nurturing role accompanied by her desire to grow people is a distinct strength that is rarely found in anime. I also happen to find this strength way cooler than an anime character that effortlessly oozes cool in a commonly seen fashion like Spike. Spike's type of cool is simply a dime a dozen and Balsa's is not. The only reason why Spike is here besides his iconic status is that he happens to execute this type of cool better than anyone else. I suppose it could also be argued that his character archetype has had a larger influence on how anime typically defines cool, but I don't believe that should be the deciding factor in this match. I would also like to echo a point made by willag as well as some of my previous arguments. Balsa is fiercely independent and pragmatic, but she still distinctly feminine, moral, and a great role model. Balsa is a beacon of cool that succeeds both in her actions, attitude, and goals in affirming her cool nature. She's virtuous, fights for what she believes in, she has a natural grace, and she has unflinching demeanor that isn't accompanied by the usual emotional detachment found in other cool characters that go this route like the Major. To sum things up, Balsa is the cream of the crop and should win even against the most iconic character in anime history. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18577 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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But that's precisely why he should win. He embodies a commonly-accepted form of cool and does it better than anyone else; that's practically the definition of being the Coolest Character. Again, I refer back to my earlier comments: in a Commendable Character tournament Balsa wins hands-down, but that is not what this is. "Cool" has (at least IMO) a lot more to deal with style and flair than execution or accomplishments. That's the one place where Balsa really can't compete with Spike, and it is (or should be) the most important factor here. |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Yes, in a Commendable Character contest Balsa would probably win, but this isn't one and people are still voting for her not because being 'moral and good' is cool (although it can help) but because she kicks ass. I have always thought Spike was cool, and agree that he takes a cliche type of cool and does it better than any other character, but Spike has always seemed 2-dimensional to me. He does have that natural aura of cool going for him, but that is one of the only things he has going for him. Also, Balsa IS naturally cool, she just doesn't have an oozing aura of cool like Spike. When it flashbacks to when spoiler[Balsa and the Spearman are running from assassins and they stay with some people, Balsa performs some awesome moves with a spear, which she has nearly perfected just by watching them used in battle, with absolutely no training.] Balsa has natural talent as fighter, and a cunning mind to go with it. It's more subtle then Spike's, but she also has a natural aura of cool. The very first time I saw her in the anime the first thoughts in my head were "this woman could kick my ass with her eyes closed". Commendable personality and moral reasons for amazing accomplishments aside, I'd still vote for Balsa over Spike because of her bad ass-ery, her ability to improvise AND plan, and the way she can win people over without even raising her spear. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Spike. Ehh, not much to say. Balsa is a pile of accomplishments. Whatever Balsa is good at, Ginko surpasses her by far in his own field. And Ginko lost like 4+ rounds ago.
As for Spike. Well, I'm definitely not passionate about his coolness, but at least there's some. Interesting, though. First we moved from badassery to coolness, and ultimately from coolness to merits. This and the "character depth" from the group tournament should just... |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18577 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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And that's why I've been arguing so strenuously (and not just this round) about "commendable" vs. "cool." The former involves depth; the latter involves more superficial appeal, at least in my philosophical view. Unfortunately for me in this case, this is one of the rare anime forums where depth is practically an all-encompassing value. . . 
It's also why a character from a shonen action series will never win one of these tournaments, no matter how much the tournament is specifically tailored towards him/her. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6607 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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And a big reason why many of us prefer this forum. 
Anyway, getting onto more important things... Some people here have bemoaned how voting hasn't gone according to their definitions of cool. So, I've done a little bit of checking up. The standard reference dictionary here in Oz is the Macquarie. It gives 21 definitions (of which 14 are adjectival). Here are some of the words used that relate to personality rather than environment: not excited; calm; unmoved; not hasty; deliberate; aloof; deficient in ardour or enthusiasm; lacking in cordiality; calmly audacious or impudent; (of jazz) controlled, subtle, relaxed; smart; up-to-date; fashionable; attractive. Going on line and checking various dictionaries gives similar results. When I look at those definitions I can see both Spike and Balsa, but I see far more of the latter. Balsa is the epitome of calm, deliberate audacity. What seemed interesting to me from that list of definitions is the notion of being up-to-date or fashionable. Who prevails here? I also had a look at that paragon of unimpeachable accuracy - Wikipedia. They have an article entitled Cool (aesthetic) which doesn't really nail the concept but makes a very pertinent point: "One of the essential characteristics of cool is its mutability—what is considered cool changes over time and varies among cultures and generations." That was, for me, the final nail in the coffin for Spike. He is an icon from a previous decade. One thing I've learned from this tournament is that he is a development of the Lupin character, so you could say he is an off-shoot of 1970s cool. Indeed, the musical references thoughout the series are from the 50s through to the 70s. Balsa is a hero for today. Even though, the anime is set in an imagined past, her values and behaviours are relevant to us, now. Spike, however, is from the 90s and he belongs there. Cool is now. So, summarising points I've made in this and previous posts: 1) Balsa fits my personal definition of a cool character - female, intelligent, capable, somewhat icy; 2) She fits the dictionary definition of calm, deliberate audacity; 3) Spike is a shell made up of cheesy elements rather than inherent qualities; 4) Few people within the Cowboy Bebop world actually admire Spike (well, he is a loser and a clown); and 5) Spike is passé while Balsa is a woman of our time... My vote goes to Balsa. It's not a matter of her achievements or whether she is commendable. Balsa is cooler than Spike. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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I've given this match much thought, and heck even enough to break my habit of voting the last minute to try my hand at persuasion.
I won't deny Spike is often hailed by the mainstream as the coolest anime character ever and Balsa will face an uphill battle. However, I believe Balsa deserves to win here, and I won't lie through my teeth and claim that Spike does not deserve to be here. Spike exudes an aura of cool, but he lacks dignity and is played as a bumbling fool from time to time with no plan whatsoever. Compared to the calculating and always respectable Balsa that's a major flaw. Balsa is also a character that demands a lot of respect as a role model, something that Spike sorely lacks. I also feel that many are underplaying the amount of badassery that Balsa displays in battle that's at least on par with Spike in this regard. But I do realize this is Spike we are talking about, probably the most venerated anime character ever to grace anime in the last few decades, so I won't be surprised if Balsa loses even if Spike rides on the residual cool of his series than by his own merits. I also believe the arguments painting Balsa as a worthy contender in a hypothetical commendable tournament and not a deserved winner here are misguided and unfounded. The difference in opinion lies is two diverging opinions in what is considered cool. Graceful, calculated badassery that's guided by morals and that serves as a role model for everyone, all backed up by a solid track record or the stereotypical aloof and uncaring slacker mentality effortless cool that relies more on style over substance that has plagued as the standard for longer than I care for remember. The choice is yours, but I urge everyone to vote based on merits and not to be attracted to merely the allure of an iconic status and outdated single-dimensional perception of what is considered cool. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I really wasn't sure I would vote at all for the finals, since I didn't have any strong feelings either way, plus I have seen Bebop but not Moribito. However, errinundra's argument has finally convinced me about what my vote should be.
And thus, I will be voting for Balsa because she sounds like an amazing character who is inwardly and outwardly cool, something that Spike, sadly, cannot quite match. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18577 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Sorry, but you don't get to claim that for a character that a) has been leading (by a lot!) on voting percentage virtually the entire tournament and b) is currently leading this match. It disgusts me when people try to paint characters as underdogs who, by most reasonable indications, actually have the advantage. If anyone should be the underdog here it's Spike, since he is now being fitted into a "classic" shoe, and anyone who's been involved in these tournaments over the long course of time knows that any character labeled "classic" just withers and dies in this tournament, since "classic" has become synonymous with stale and underdeveloped. Anyway, I'm done making arguments here. The tide which is painting Spike as the inferior choice because he doesn't earn it like Balsa does (a position I emphatically disagree with) is starting to seem inexorable. At this point I will be genuinely surprised if Spike comes back to win this. |
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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I agree with people who say that a cool character does not need to be a role model. Neither does he need to be an intellectual who plans everything before it happens. Mugen for example never gave a thought to anything before acting, and I still think he was one of the best fits in this tournament. Neither do I believe that coolness is something that goes out of date after a decade or so. Some things change, some are universal. Some things were cool in the 80's, and remained cool until today.
Therefore my vote goes to Spike. I voted against him in the previous round, but all in all, I secretly thing that as a character, he deserves to win the tournament. His reputation did not turn up out of nowhere. I admit, I found it a bit disappointing how things ended in the series, but maybe a part of Spike coolness is the way he sees the world? I do not see his emotional detachement as a fault either, and it probably is why his character fits in the whole universe of Cowboy Bebop, where most relationships are deep, intense, but short lived.
Also, if I recall, Spike actually does get his share of admiration- I cannot at the moment remember the name of the character who deeply admired him, and I believe it was hinted that Spike was a sort of a mentor to him, and a few other young people in the organisation. I dont think that comic relief really makes a clown out of him- more so a human living with his faults, which does not make him less cool... The fact that the generally quite depressing series dealt with some situations woth humour for me was a plus, not a disadvantage. Analogically, not a lot of people in for example Samurai Champloo admire Mugen or Jin (who as a person who killed his master draws more contempt than anything else), and still, I would never say that they are not cool simply because of that. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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A bit sad that posters are attacking a character as super iconic character that's a shoe-in to win the whole thing, even though the tables are turned against him right now.
Balsa deserves to be here, but I found her overly preachy and sometimes stoic nature less cool than the intensely colorful and infinitely more interesting Spike. Spike has the effortless cool down to such a perfect science that even his detractors admit that he's coolest character in the most commonly accepted and used strand of cool. Also although the standard of cool changes over time, I hardly find Spike flavor of cool to be as outdated or as cheesy as some posters suggest. Better a tad hokey than emotionally muted and overly righteous. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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While I agree that he doesn't really seek his own death, your quote points out that he's kind of an emotional zombie, and that is kind of a notable negative. On the other hand, this is the final round. This decides whom this forum considers the coolest anime character ever. Now, there's an inherent problem regarding how we run the tournaments and this particular quality: We are required to provide a reasoning for our choices, and as such must analyze our decisions. This leads to second guessing of our gut choices in a competition to determine the paragon of a quality that is more intangible than most. Now, I'm not trying to suggest we should have done away with the justifications, because that could have led to just a collection of lists and diminished interest below the doldrums this tournament experienced. What I'm saying is that perhaps we were a little too focused on choosing with our heads when we should have been choosing with our hearts (forgive the sappy sentimentality), not that I haven't been guilty of doing this too. But ultimately, my choice comes down to this: If I were to ask someone who the coolest anime character ever, and they replied: Balsa from Moribito; my response would be, "eh, I guess I can see that," whereas if the replied: Spike; my reaction would be, "Of course!" So here I am, voting for Spike. spoiler[(Despite talking with JO last weekend about this tournament and agreeing with her assessment that Spike does have some issues that detract from his coolness).] *Spoiler tag used for unimportant stuff, not actual spoilers. |
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Nosferatu21
 Posts: 520 Location: Ohio |
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Balsa was such a refreshing character to watch. Far from your typical hero and she used a long spear which is a weapon not used too much in anime(anime's all about swords). Level-headed and always with a plan prepared she was an incredibly cool character to watch for 26 episodes.
That said, I'm still voting for Spike. If I had to define him in one word it would be "cool". For Balsa I would have said "warrior". Neither is invincible which is a good thing when measuring cool. If they dominate the fight from the start, how will they dig themselves out of a hole to win? Spike would come out the victor and then drop a one-liner as he walks away lighting a cigarette, Balsa would analyze what happened and think of a future course of action. Is either a bad option? No, both are cool in their own way. Spike just fits my personal definition of "cool/badass" more than Balsa. Blame it on culture and the media. I've been raised to believe that smoking, laid-back, one-line dopping, ass-kicking people are "cool". |
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Olliff
Posts: 550 |
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With four straight Spike votes in a row, it is now clear that Spike's label as an underdog is at least partially over-exaggerated. I also find it interesting that most Spike supporters focus on his effortlessly cool aura and laid back nature as his greatest strengths rather than more concrete merits. Personality and style are clearly being weighed more heavily than values, accomplishments, actions, and being an overall good role model.
Key does make a good point by quoting me. Does cool really require a positive track record, originality, depth, and admirability or do we as society value a societal slacker defined not by his own failures, lack of ambition and occasional goofiness and lack of dignity, but by his confidence, subtle charm, stylistic badassery, and use of hokey one liners in place of genuine wit as the commonly accepted standard of cool? I am not saying Spike does not deserve to win, but it tells us something about anime fans in general if he is the definition of cool, especially when we must pass over a much more respectable, accomplished and admirable character like Balsa to crown the Spike the king of cool. Last edited by Olliff on Sun May 29, 2011 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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