Forum - View topicBest Rivals/Adversaries Tournament: Post-Mortem
|
Goto page Previous Next |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
|
|||
Isaac and Miria got knocked out of the original Duos Tournament in the first round. While a new moe tournament would certainly have plenty of fresh blood, I'm with Olliff on the issue of Most Moe being the most subjective tournament possible. People tend to get into huge arguments about what moe even means, and that's before we've even started considering individual preferences for words that we can, more or less, agree on definitions for, like cute or innocent. I think the Biggest Jerk or Biggest Loser ideas are an interesting change of pace. |
||||
|
||||
Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
|
|||
|
Not being a moe fan, I do not think I would participate in moe tournament. My moe knowledge is tiny and I am not planning on increasing it.
Most Kind-hearted/Warm-hearted looks like an interesting idea though, and could potentially offer a range of characters that did not fit in the previous tournaments. |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
|
Ah well, so a Moe tourney is unpopular. At least I engendered discussion.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
This utterly flabbergasts me. I hope that they at least got beat by someone strong. |
||||
|
||||
Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
|
|||
|
Minimal interest in a Moe repeat. It could be redone though cause it has so many new and strong challengers for the title. The Biggest Jerk or Biggest Loser tournament ideas really make me smile, and the Biggest Loser one especially would bring in new faces and make for a light-hearted tournament. Biggest Jerk sounds fun but we'd have to make sure it's significantly differentiated from Most Evil. The more I think about it the more I love the idea of Biggest Loser!
 That would fun!
|
||||
|
||||
Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4614 Location: Gainesville, FL |
|
|||
|
Yeah, I've thought the same thing DTM did, enough time has happened since the last moe tourney (which was before I was active here) and there are plenty of new prospective candidates. I'd definitely participate. But I admit it would probably produce some heated arguments that may devolve from constructive criticism. It is basically a question of "what is moe?" which always makes people mad for some reason. To make more objective you'd have to wittle it down to some definable aspect of what people believe moe is that people could then judge, like most sympathetic, most warm-hearted, most adorable, etc.
But while a moe tourney would bet people arguing vehemently, a category like those might not get anyone fired up enough. |
||||
|
||||
Raftina
 Posts: 3282 |
|
|||
There are well more than 64 mentors in anime, so your concern must be whether we can find 64 that are worth noting. I will assume that there are not enough and find a way to expand the scope of search while adhering to the basic idea. The better way to broaden the Best Mentor scope is to change it to Best Mentor-Pupil Dynamic rather than to Best Teacher/Mentor. The mentor title implies a close and personal relationship between mentor and pupil, one that is supposed to affect the pupil in some profound manner. It is better to explore the dynamic between the mentor and pupil rather than focus solely on the mentor. It is, in any case, difficult to discuss the merits of the mentor without discussing his pupils and the effect he has on them. By contrast, the teacher title does not carry the close and personal connotation of mentor. It expands the scope in a non-natural manner. We can be sure that the change to Best Mentor-Pupil Dynamic is an expansion for two reasons: First, any mentor is going to have at least one mentor-pupil relationship, but not all mentor-pupil relationships lead to a character being considered a mentor. Consider the sidekicks of magical girls such as Luna of Sailor Moon or Kero of Cardcaptors: These are usually magical beings who have to teach the novice magical girl the tricks of the trade. In this respect, they have a mentor-pupil relationship. However, because they are usually cute critters--be it a cat, a stuffed animal, or a fairy--, they are usually close in age to the magical girl, and they eventually become equal partners, it is difficult to consider them mentors. Second, the new set allows us to include nominations where the mentor is, by himself in his role as mentor, unexceptional, but the relationship between the two is interesting. Let me illustrate this difference between Best Mentor and Best Mentor-Pupil Dynamic with some examples: Jose from Gunslinger Girl teaches Henrietta trivia, combat, and manners. He's a nice guy who gives her gifts and does nice things for her happiness. But other than a nice guy who teaches her things, his capacity as the mentor has nothing else worth mentioning. However, his student is a killer cyborg made from a conditioned little girl. The girl bears some resemblance to spoiler[his late younger sister.] It is plausible that he sees Henrietta as spoiler[a replacement for the sister he lost, but she is also a tool for him to get revenge as well as normally an innocent girl.] Thus, he treads on eggshells when dealing with her, which is the reason for his gentleness. Jose is, by himself, uninteresting, but his dynamic with Henrietta is certainly worth a nomination. Najica from Najica Blitz Tactics is foremost a secret agent. She is assigned the robot Lila to take her on operations. Her role as a mentor is minor compared to the action, and she wouldn't be a particularly good contender for the tournament. However, Najica has to teach Lila what to do in addition to teaching her human interactions because she is essentially a blank, and she has to do it quickly because she has to work with Lila. The fact that she is mentoring her partner rather than a student changes the traditional mentor-pupil dynamic and gives us the hurried, quick, but insightful pointers that is not likely to be prominent in a traditional relationship. Similar dynamics can been seen in Amon-Robin from Witch Hunter Robin, Gim-Parn in Record of Lodoss Wars, and Sven-Eve in Black Cat. Haji from Blood+ teaches Saya how to fight, but he is also her servant spoiler[both by will and by blood.] This reversal of relationships creates another layer that would not be present if we examine the mentor himself. There are plenty of other permutations to the mentor-pupil dynamic. We have spoiler[an evil mentor manipulating an essentially good pupil] in Puella Magi Madoka Magica, a combination of the evil mentor-pupil and the master-servant dynamic for Sebastian-Ciel in Black Butler, an adoptive parent-child relationship for Balsa-Chagum in Moribito, a child abuse evil mentor-pupil relationship for Akai-Sawa in Kite, and the list goes on. I expect that there are more than enough choices to have a full 64 entry tournament with interesting participants. Last edited by Raftina on Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:33 am; edited 3 times in total |
||||
|
||||
|
dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
|
|||
Not to drizzle on your good campaigning post, but this isn't true. spoiler[He wasn't evil. One of the best lines of the series was how he was always confused as to why Mahou Shoujo would get upset with him over the terms of the contract. He may have been sociopathic in a way, but even then it is hard to attribute this to him. He's undoubtedly one of the more interesting and better-done aliens in Science Fiction, as he is truly an alien in world viewpoint and morality rather than just a LGM.] Sorry, couldn't help myself, I'm a PMMM fanboy and all that. |
||||
|
||||
|
Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
|
|||
Kino and Hermes, which baffled me at the time even, although they did beat Vash and Wolfwood in the following round, but lost in the third to Belldandy and Keiichi. |
||||
|
||||
A Mystery
 Posts: 1887 Location: Netherlands |
|
|||
|
I kinda lost interest in the last rounds, for multiple reasons.
- The subject of the tournament is one - I didn't participate in other tournaments, but followed them a bit and a lot of nominees were the same. - Voting every week is fun, but takes some discipline. Sometimes I just didn't know how to justify my reasons for voting for a nominee or think of arguments. - After months of free time I suddenly had to study and make long days, so priorities shifted a bit. If an interesting tournament comes up, I'll think of participating. Best mentor-pupil dynamic sounds like an idea. Thanks to Key and the rest who made this tournament work 
|
||||
|
||||
|
Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
|
|||
|
It seems most of us aren't that interested in a Most Moe tournament, but it unarguably would bring in new blood both for characters and for voters. It seems that a large part of Moe-ness is the desire to protect that person, usually because they've had a lot of shit happen in their life. So I propose a Most Tragic Character tournament. There are plenty of tragic characters in anime so filling a field of 128 would be no problem.
|
||||
|
||||
|
Dorcas_Aurelia
Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
|
|||
|
Tris, have you read the pm I sent you yet?
|
||||
|
||||
|
PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
|
|||
I'm utterly flabbergasted you're flabbergasted. As a tournament referee, I'm sure you've seen so many questionable "wins" that I'm sure you've toyed with the idea of making some changes so that the expected wins are anything but. Anyone who didn't see this L vs. Light as a winner of this tournament are living in a world of bliss. I had originally posted, before voting began, the winner of this tournament once the seeds were generated, but deleted it solely because I felt it would have sparked controversy. Those who voted for this duo should be ashamed of themselves. Not because they picked them to win, but because their anime viewing is so limited, the duo are the best of what they know. Watch more anime, please! This way, the next tournament won't have people voting for titles and making comments like "I didn't see any of these, so I'm going with what most are picking." I would love nothing more to have these people's votes removed immediately from the tournament, and ignore any further votes. However, for a referee, this would be a considerably tedious tallying effort. I'd wish L vs. Light congrats for the win, but I'm a sore loser (though I never voted). This tournament was rigged long before it started and seemed a complete waste of time. "Seemed" being the word of point. Just once, I'd like to see a tournament supported on merits, rather than popularity, so no one is ever flabbergasted again. Perhaps a rule which states "No anime titles ranked 'Excellent' or better or aired on Cartoon Network may participate"? Just once? Meh. I suppose in its own right, it's still fun to see puppets dancing to pulled strings, as though they truly couldn't justify why Death Note should not come out the victor. I've said my piece. Please don't make any more of an issue of this than I already have. I just felt the need to vent, because I'm sure I'm not alone when I say this gets tiring when the Cartoon Network generation of anime fans have so, so little to work with. I'm not angry, just... flabbergasted. So much so, I can predict the next winner before the tournament is even announced: Cowboy Bebop Evangelion Death Note FLCL Dragonball Z (see a pattern here yet?) Full Metal Alchemist (either version) Outlaw Star (in case old school is included) Again, this post is not in anger, so don't get your panties in a bunch I disagree with the choice of this tournament's winner. Personally, I'd have voted Basilisk, because of the two, it is the best. Everyone seemed to have fun, so that's the important thing here, right? *closes vent |
||||
|
||||
|
Key
Moderator
Posts: 18219 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||
I know you're just being contrary here, but I would point out that NGE has never fared well in these tournaments and FLCL has only seen even nominations once or twice, and those didn't go too far. Although Adult Swim titles have have seemed to win a lot, Best Supporting Character was was by a Black Lagoon character, Best Hero was a tie between Princess Tutu and NTHT characters, and Best Duo was won by Kurau Phantom Memory, with a close second by a Crest of the Stars duo and no AS title even cracking the Final Four. |
||||
|
||||
|
PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
|
|||
|
Oh, I remember.
The Duo tournament remains my favorite.
Speaking of which: over the course of these tournaments, someone throws together an Excel file of the brackets, but I've never seen any completed. Do they exist? If so, would you by chance have a copy of each? I've a pet project I may tackle.
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group