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Review Saint Seiya


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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:17 pm Reply with quote
Cassandra wrote:


No, what I've gotten out of your posts is that you're mad at the way Zac worded "This show is bad." If Zac had sugar-coasted his dislike for the disc a little more, you probably wouldn't have complained. However, from what I've seen, Zac's writing style doesn't come sugar-coated. He says what he thinks....and that's his job.


No. Re-read it again. Or read what musouka said.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:23 pm Reply with quote
Sounds to me like we've come to an agreement on this. I have to say that you guys are the most reasonable fans I've ever had to deal with on something like this and you all made excellent points. Thank you for reading the site and listening to what I have to say.

-Zac
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Well, thank you too, Zac. I appreciate you listening to our points and taking the time to refute them. That's all one can really ask for. I agree, it's better to just agree to disagree when it comes to matters of likes and dislikes.
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:28 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Sounds to me like we've come to an agreement on this. I have to say that you guys are the most reasonable fans I've ever had to deal with on something like this and you all made excellent points. Thank you for reading the site and listening to what I have to say.

-Zac


You're welcome Very Happy. I love the encyclopedia Wink, though I never really pay attention to reviews (anywhere, not only here. Though I do read them Razz)
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Animum



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 2
Location: Midwest
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:00 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

The point of the extra information was to tell people that if they didn't like that sort of thing, chances are, this show isn't for them. If you don't like a lot of tournament-style fighting, you probably won't like Saint Seiya, right?


Got here much too late to contribute my 2 cents in a timely fashion, to what wrapped up in a civilized manner, but what the heck:

I appreciate the "chances are" modifier in the above statement, because I'm one of those exceptions. I don't care for fighting shows (dub!DBZ?) at all, and I admit the first 2 episodes of StS bored me a bit, as did the WWF-style tournament -- but on the other hand, there were women crushing rocks in one hand, and some intriguing characters. (They were intriguing to me perhaps because I haven't "been there done that") By episode 5 I was no longer bored, and by ep 10 I was completely hooked.

And to say, "The show gets really good at ep 40" shouldn't automatically imply that eps 1-39 are crap and not worth watching. Ep 40 introduces 10 additional characters that interact with the ones the viewer has already seen and got to know through the earlier episodes, and THAT'S what makes the later episodes "even better" than what came before: because you "know" these guys now.

Finally, yes, it's a "fighting" show. But for me, the fights are a secondary focus, merely a framework that reveals character and give you something to look at as the plot unfolds.
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Fenrir



Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 369
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:12 pm Reply with quote
Well I gotta say your being pretty reasonable Zac. All of us here don't have any problems with your review of the show if it was not for you then that's fine give the first 4 episodes a bad review and leave it at that. I think most of us were just offended because of the review you made of all of the entire show without watching it. I still haven't seen all of Saint Seiya but I love what I have seen and can't wait for more. But if it's not your bag then fan. I think the generalization of some things is what really offended us. If you had watched say the first 10-20 somewhere in their I 'm sure most of us would have not said anything.
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Ancient_Khayman



Joined: 12 Dec 2003
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 8:29 pm Reply with quote
At least both sides have explained their point. But I still disagree with the review. Nobody can explain it better than Fuu-Chan:
A series can be fantastic and beautiful thanks to the intense emotions it gives rise to, be it through its music, its character design, its characters, the memories it calls out to, or for any other reason. You can love something for no "better" reason than it moves you deeply. You can watch with your heart and your guts. Each title has its own identity, its unique features. Each series may or may not move people. Saint Seiya moves me, and it succeeds because it calls out to those emotions that are so often disparaged and looked upon with contempt. When I watch this series, I watch it with my heart, and it will always be the most beautiful present that Japanese animation ever gave me.

Amen to that Razz And I started watching it last year, not 10+ years ago like many of its fans. Those who want to see Fuu-Chan's page, go here (tons of awesome pics): http://fuunoroad.free.fr/Hades_Hen_Tsuzuku.html
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:02 am Reply with quote
Ancient_Khayman wrote:
At least both sides have explained their point. But I still disagree with the review. Nobody can explain it better than Fuu-Chan:
A series can be fantastic and beautiful thanks to the intense emotions it gives rise to, be it through its music, its character design, its characters, the memories it calls out to, or for any other reason. You can love something for no "better" reason than it moves you deeply. You can watch with your heart and your guts. Each title has its own identity, its unique features. Each series may or may not move people. Saint Seiya moves me, and it succeeds because it calls out to those emotions that are so often disparaged and looked upon with contempt. When I watch this series, I watch it with my heart, and it will always be the most beautiful present that Japanese animation ever gave me.

Amen to that Razz And I started watching it last year, not 10+ years ago like many of its fans. Those who want to see Fuu-Chan's page, go here (tons of awesome pics): http://fuunoroad.free.fr/Hades_Hen_Tsuzuku.html


Fuu-chan's website is great. Tons of good images, except most of them are Shun's ones :p
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Karin Aoi



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2003 10:16 pm Reply with quote
Meh, add me to the bunch that disagrees with the review. *Note, the following is my opinion and I'm not trying to fight with anyone, just saying why I disagree*

While reading here, it was mentioned that many people would like the characters and story along the way. I say that's not true. A big example for me is Fushigi Yugi. When many of its never developed characters died, I felt nothing for them, even though they'd been there forever. That's not the case with Saint Seiya. I LOVE the characters, and they're very well developed. Heck, even my 54 years old mother was crying at many scenes. The story is not shown at first, but rather it'll come to view in a while, after the characters are introduced. It is simple, but yet very satisfying and moving. Some parts are very well written, either regarding to characters or to events hapenning. The music is beautiful, and some memorable pieces can be heard early on, like when Hyoga puts his cloth on for the first time. The designs are beautiful for the important characters. As said in Newtype, "The stunningly beautiful characters gained unrivaled popularity with the female audience". And not to mention the cloth designs for the high ranking characters. The series is old, so it won't awe right now. But I still felt the ratings were too harsh. Even for being a 1986 series, it has better animation than, let's say "Violinist of Hameln". And it doesn't really look that bad, just not up to today's standards. I extremely disagree with the characters being "awful", considering tons of series modeled their characters after these ones, including shoujo series like many of Clamp's works, or Sailor Moon (both Naoko Takeuchi and Clamp have cited Seiya as an inspiration, and Clamp even made a doujinshi before being a pro group).

So well, that's my view of it (and probably of many others, seeing as this is one of the biggest franchises in the world). And I'm very glad ADV is releasing this series, and that it's releasing more classics. I hope to see this trend continue.
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Retrohelix



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 13
Location: MD, USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 12:10 am Reply with quote
i can't believe you're still going at it, what people don't seem to understand is the idea of a review being harsh, if i write a really harsh review of some anime you don't like you won't say a word, it only happens when you're an addict to the target ¬¬. look guys, i like saint seiya too but while zac was a little off in certain things because he made a review without watching the series, you can't blame the guy for not sitting his butt for 114 episodes and 4 movies, for the love of cheese, even i being a fan can easily find you 100000000 plot holes during the series, the lack of action in others and the excesive posing and crying; while it's wrong to compare it with series like dbz and yu yu hakusho, don't expect an a+ review for something that old, lets face the facts, saint seiya didn't age well, in fact, it became famous in many countries around the wolrd except in japan, what do you make of that? bottom line, i'm not trying to be rude but if you don't like his review just because you keep comparing it with some others that only sweet-talk your favorite cartoon then you're even less qualified to make one, he made it from his point of view and just because you don't share that view doesn't mean he has to change it to yours. Wink
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Karin Aoi



Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2003 1:20 am Reply with quote
Retrohelix wrote:
i can't believe you're still going at it, what people don't seem to understand is the idea of a review being harsh, if i write a really harsh review of some anime you don't like you won't say a word, it only happens when you're an addict to the target ¬¬. look guys, i like saint seiya too but while zac was a little off in certain things because he made a review without watching the series, you can't blame the guy for not sitting his butt for 114 episodes and 4 movies, for the love of cheese, even i being a fan can easily find you 100000000 plot holes during the series, the lack of action in others and the excesive posing and crying; while it's wrong to compare it with series like dbz and yu yu hakusho, don't expect an a+ review for something that old, lets face the facts, saint seiya didn't age well, in fact, it became famous in many countries around the wolrd except in japan, what do you make of that? bottom line, i'm not trying to be rude but if you don't like his review just because you keep comparing it with some others that only sweet-talk your favorite cartoon then you're even less qualified to make one, he made it from his point of view and just because you don't share that view doesn't mean he has to change it to yours. Wink


It's not that I was still going at it. That's why I said I'm not fighting the reviewer, I was just posting an OPINION of why I disagree too. That's what forums are for, to express opinions! Geez! We also have a right to agree or disagree with reviews, and you could see everyone here ended up in good terms. And who said anyone was expecting A+ scores? Nothing is perfect. Oh and saying if it aged or didn't age well is rather subjective, not a fact.

BTW, it was famous in Japan. That's why it has 114 episodes, the manga lasted for 5 years, and sold millions. The new Saint Seiya manga (Episode G), is the main seller for the magazine where it's serialized. The Hades DVDs sold very well, which lead to the creation of the new movie.
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Retrohelix



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 13
Location: MD, USA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2003 11:22 pm Reply with quote
Im sorry but i wasnt talking about you, i was saying that in general, as you said forums are to express opinions, i was talking specifically to the people who kept comparing zac's review with some others, now about this:

Quote:
BTW, it was famous in Japan. That's why it has 114 episodes, the manga lasted for 5 years, and sold millions. The new Saint Seiya manga (Episode G), is the main seller for the magazine where it's serialized. The Hades DVDs sold very well, which lead to the creation of the new movie.


It was famous in japan for a while, didn't last long though, having 114 episodes doesnt make it famous, a lot of cartoons during that time were long, the manga lasting for 5 years is nothing compared to others, a lot of true fans in japan don't like okada's work in episode g, the sales on that aren't that good, the hades dvds didn't sell that good either, they're too expensive and there's too much piracy going on that it's easier to find them online, the creation of the new movie is going on because of fan's pressure on toei, not because of the hades' sales, i with some other guys run a ss forum and we get fresh info from time to time, and yeah, even with that i can recognize that it has holes the size of the universe, as you said, nothing is perfect, thats why i never debated zac's review even though i read it when it was new, that was like long ago, i'm not saying i agree with zac, but opening a thread arguing for a review that old is just like trying to teach a horse quantum mechanics, specially when ss was a major disaster in the US, if you read the whole thread i'm sure you noticed that many people gave their opinions about KOTZ and not SS, so yeah, you can all give your thoughts about it but i wouldn't waste my time trying to argue with the author just because i don't share his point of view.
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Fri Dec 26, 2003 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Retrohelix wrote:

It was famous in japan for a while, didn't last long though, having 114 episodes doesnt make it famous, a lot of cartoons during that time were long, the manga lasting for 5 years is nothing compared to others,


Not true. An unsupported series gets its plug cut out early on. The manga sold millions.

Retrohelix wrote:
a lot of true fans in japan don't like okada's work in episode g, the sales on that aren't that good,


Yet it's the main seller for the magazine, and it continues to grace the cover of it. Just like Yu Gi Oh keeps appearing on the cover of US Shonen Jump. It attracts sales. That does not happen with unsuccesful series.

Retrohelix wrote:
the hades dvds didn't sell that good either, they're too expensive and there's too much piracy going on that it's easier to find them online,


Newtype keeps listing them as one of the top 10 sellers every month. Toei reported it sold beyond expectations. Piracy is an issue with absolutely every series out there, so it's not something that reflects only on StS.

Retrohelix wrote:
the creation of the new movie is going on because of fan's pressure on toei, not because of the hades' sales


No studio would create something and waste money if they weren't sure they would get money in return. And if there's fan pressure, that means there's support for the product. What you posted is a contradiction.

Retrohelix wrote:

i with some other guys run a ss forum and we get fresh info from time to time, and yeah, even with that i can recognize that it has holes the size of the universe, as you said, nothing is perfect, thats why i never debated zac's review even though i read it when it was new, that was like long ago, i'm not saying i agree with zac, but opening a thread arguing for a review that old is just like trying to teach a horse quantum mechanics, specially when ss was a major disaster in the US, if you read the whole thread i'm sure you noticed that many people gave their opinions about KOTZ and not SS, so yeah, you can all give your thoughts about it but i wouldn't waste my time trying to argue with the author just because i don't share his point of view.


I don't think the purpose of all that posted was to make the reviewer change his mind, but rather to say we disagree. Posting our opinions just help reflect that there's people that like it and that if there are others that don't share the same views with the reviewer on many other series, may also find they like this one too. But now, let's put this topic to rest, and continue enjoying the release. *2 weeks for volume 3!!!! Very Happy*
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