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Review Saint Seiya


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Cassandra



Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 1356
Location: Birdsboro, PA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:30 am Reply with quote
Geri wrote:
Cassandra wrote:

It's a bad review because they gave the content a C+, where Zac gave it a D. That means the AoD reviewer liked it slightly more than Zac did. That's pretty much saying the first DVD is pretty mediocre, if not straight out bad.


Don't see your point. So, then, by comparing reviews, how would you think if you saw this one then: http://www.japanhero.com/animation%20hero%20reviews/saint_seiya.htm

All in all, reviews are guidelines, not the ultimate word on something. They shouldn't be followed blindly, especially if the reviewer is not into the same type of things you are into.


Well..see..if you like the show (and I haven't even seen it), that would be a good review...because the guy pretty much raves about it. There isn't really one bad thing in that review. So I'm not quite sure what your point in linking that was.

*blink* I still don't get why people are complaining about Zac's review. It's his opinion of what was on the disc. And yet a comparable review is deemed better than what he wrote.
If you don't like his review, get a webpage and write your own. *shrug* Review = Opinion. There really isn't much to get upset about there.
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Fencedude



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:32 am Reply with quote
*goes off to find musouka*

Oh, and I've never seen Saint Seiya (other than 1 and a half episodes of the Knights of the Zodiac crapfest) and thought that that was a horrid review.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:33 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Saint Seiya sucks, I said it sucked, I pointed out WHY it sucked using evidence collected FROM the show, and therefore, the review is valid. So just own up to it, admit that you're whining because you disagree with the review, and kindly back away.


At no time did I ask for the review to be taken down. I just questioned its validity. However, your explanation did have some sort of merit, and it helped me understand the review a bit more. I still do disagree with it, but I no longer feel that it was based on pure speculation, which was all I really questioned.

I still think that in order to review something you should, 'y'know, restrict it to what you've seen (with your own two eyes) of the show, but if that's contrary to the way this site operates, then there's nothing I can do to change it.


Last edited by musouka on Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Fencedude



Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:34 am Reply with quote
haha...am I psychic or what?
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:38 am Reply with quote
Fencedude wrote:
haha...am I psychic or what?


Well, of course I'd be here. The temptation was just too much to bear when I saw the thread. I have a pretty good idea who Geri is too. Razz
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:48 am Reply with quote
"I still think that in order to review something you should, 'y'know, restrict it to what you've seen (with your own two eyes) of the show, but if that's contrary to the way this site operates, then there's nothing I can do to change it."

Okay, this I'll agree with.

The point of the extra information was to tell people that if they didn't like that sort of thing, chances are, this show isn't for them. If you don't like a lot of tournament-style fighting, you probably won't like Saint Seiya, right? I went out and read a ton of plot synopses and thet info I got certainly jived with what I'd heard from lots of other folks, which is that the show is basically one long endless fight.

However, you are correct; I was wrong to put the extra information in there, regardless of how correct or incorrect it was. I'll make a deal with you: you admit that your love for the series clouds your ability to judge a 'good' review of the show, and I'll admit that in the future, I need to simply stick with what I've seen, regardless of how I know the show will turn out in the end.

Sound like a plan?
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:48 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
"But yours was really uninformed, and assumed things without knowing it."

So you're telling me that my information was wrong.

So you're saying that the show isn't mostly tournament-style fighting. You're telling me that the 60+ plot synopses I read were all completely wrong, and that I was misinformed. That they don't spend the bulk of the series fighting enemies who increase in power, where the stakes get raised for each fight. You're telling me that that isn't the main thrust of the story. You may want to go to this website:

"http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/6508/series.html"

And tell them that they're wrong.

If the show IS mostly tournament-style fighting, then my 'assumptions' based on collected evidence were correct and the show is little more than a series of fights, regardless of how much justification and 'character development' there is surrounding those fights. I hated the characters I saw. I gave reasons for that. That's what a review is; it isn't based entirely on objective things, which is what you're boling it down to. A review IS SUBJECTIVE. It's an OPINION. What exactly is it that you WANT here, aside from me to go back and change what I wrote so that it doesn't say what is, according to you, the truth, which is that Saint Seiya is yet another tournament-style fighting series?

When I say that other shows have long stretches of plot that aren't about fighting consistantly stronger enemies, I'm talking about shows like Naruto, where they focus on the training or on Naruto's past or something else for 5-10 episodes at a time. Or something like Kenshin, that concerns itself with politics or whatever else in between the tournament-style fighting. Even Hunter x Hunter had a series of trials and races designed to break up the endless fighting. From what I saw, Saint Seiya doesn't have much of that. It's mostly quest-item-dropoff, followed by powering up, followed by fighting strong enemies. Just like Dragonball (which I gave a positive review to, ironically).

I'm genuinely curious and will eat my hat if you can honestly give me good, solid evidence that Saint Seiya is NOT MOSTLY tournament-style fighting. I'm curious now. If you can literally prove me wrong on a FACTUAL level (do not try and prove to me that the show is GOOD, since that is, according to you, NOT the argument you're trying to make), then I'll happily change the review AND issue a public apology.

Okay?
-Z


There are fights, but there's a lot of explanation for their past, and the past events that lead to that. It doesn't seem like you'll like the show. That's a given. But what I say is that you assumed there was no character development, nor story parts. That's what I say is wrong. The focus of the story is regarding a past event, and that mistery is told throughout the series. There really is a huge focus on those things. Characters do get a lot of parts attached to them, and it's fun to see how the web of characters relate to all that happened. I'm not saying it's rocket science, but I, and many others, found it enjoyable.
Then there's some adventuring and imaginative parts, like taking a trip to hell, watching the various circles of hell, as a homage to Dante's "Divine Comedy". It may, or may not be your thing, but many do like the story, and there is one. You could try and read the Hypermyth, which is an explanation of the entire creation of the StS universe. Or basically, it's fine by me to say you didn't like it. I can't refute that. But just not to unfairly say some things, until you have experienced it.


Last edited by Geri on Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:52 am Reply with quote
musouka wrote:
Fencedude wrote:
haha...am I psychic or what?


Well, of course I'd be here. The temptation was just too much to bear when I saw the thread. I have a pretty good idea who Geri is too. Razz


Of course you know who I am Wink
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 11:55 am Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
I'll make a deal with you: you admit that your love for the series clouds your ability to judge a 'good' review of the show, and I'll admit that in the future, I need to simply stick with what I've seen, regardless of how I know the show will turn out in the end.


Well, I make no pretenses of not being biased. I like StS, and I like reading good reviews for it. The thing is that I also realize StS is a flawed show. I like it despite those flaws, you dislike it because of those flaws.

If you want me to say I can't judge a good review, then okay. I think I can, but if I'm coming across that biased to you, there's not a whole lot I can do. So, all right, "I'm terribly biased and wouldn't know a good review if it bit me in the ass." Small price to pay if you agree to review what you see next time.

Though I do have to wonder...if you admit you should only review based on what you've seen, then wouldn't that make the review flawed and therefore me being right in saying it wasn't a good review?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:01 pm Reply with quote
"Though I do have to wonder...if you admit you should only review based on what you've seen, then wouldn't that make the review flawed and therefore me being right in saying it wasn't a good review?"

You're nitpicking over a handful of sentences early in the review. The rest of the review - 90 percent of it - talks only about the first volume. I don't need to then say "I'm only talking about the first volume here" in front of every criticism just to make sure you know what I'm talking about. It's very clear, especially since I talk about specific events in the first volume.

Every review is 'flawed' according to someone and nothing's perfect. It isn't a bad review, it just has some extra information that, according to your standpoint on critique, should or shouldn't be in there. I agreed to sticking to only exactly what I've seen regardless of what I know. That doesn't mean I think I was wrong or misinformed, it means I'm agreeing that your method will cause fewer problems in the future.

-Z
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:04 pm Reply with quote
Cassandra wrote:

Well..see..if you like the show (and I haven't even seen it), that would be a good review...because the guy pretty much raves about it. There isn't really one bad thing in that review. So I'm not quite sure what your point in linking that was.

*blink* I still don't get why people are complaining about Zac's review. It's his opinion of what was on the disc. And yet a comparable review is deemed better than what he wrote.
If you don't like his review, get a webpage and write your own. *shrug* Review = Opinion. There really isn't much to get upset about there.


That's what I said. That link was to refute the part that said "The show is mediocre" because of that review. Or that was what I could get from your post. So when I posted that it was to say a review is not a definite thing, but only a guide. So if someone reads that other review, they'll think the StS DVD will come bundled with a ray of sunshine and a choir of angels.

The only bit we were really arguing against was that the review said the entire show would be void of story and good characters, when he hadn't really seen it (and that's something we disagree with).
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Zac
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:07 pm Reply with quote
"the review said the entire show would be void of story and good characters"

Please point out where my review says that exactly.

It specifically says that the show is 'little more than' one long tournament fight and that not much seems to happen outside of major battle after major battle. That's it. It actually says nothing specific to the characters and does not make any such statement about the show as a whole.

-Z


Last edited by Zac on Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Cassandra



Joined: 13 May 2002
Posts: 1356
Location: Birdsboro, PA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:10 pm Reply with quote
Geri wrote:


That's what I said. That link was to refute the part that said "The show is mediocre" because of that review. Or that was what I could get from your post. So when I posted that it was to say a review is not a definite thing, but only a guide. So if someone reads that other review, they'll think the StS DVD will come bundled with a ray of sunshine and a choir of angels.

The only bit we were really arguing against was that the review said the entire show would be void of story and good characters, when he hadn't really seen it (and that's something we disagree with).


No, what I've gotten out of your posts is that you're mad at the way Zac worded "This show is bad." If Zac had sugar-coasted his dislike for the disc a little more, you probably wouldn't have complained. However, from what I've seen, Zac's writing style doesn't come sugar-coated. He says what he thinks....and that's his job.
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musouka



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 719
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:14 pm Reply with quote
Cassandra wrote:
No, what I've gotten out of your posts is that you're mad at the way Zac worded "This show is bad." If Zac had sugar-coasted his dislike for the disc a little more, you probably wouldn't have complained. However, from what I've seen, Zac's writing style doesn't come sugar-coated. He says what he thinks....and that's his job.


Read better. Neither I nor Geri have said that Zac has to ease up on how he reviews. This can be seen in the only part that is an issue with practically any StS fan is the part where he reviewed what he hadn't seen.

I can't make Zac like StS. I don't WANT to make Zac like StS. All I want is a review of the first DVD without a mini review of the rest of the series sight unseen. Zac has already said that shouldn't have been in there. I agree, and admitted that I'm predisposed to be biased in StS's favor, but that doesn't mean I have issue with the part of the review that is based on what he saw of the series itself. If I HAD then I would have brought it up with stupid, biased arguments like "I like their haircuts, and Zac should too!" and such.


Last edited by musouka on Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:21 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Geri



Joined: 13 Dec 2003
Posts: 29
PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
"the review said the entire show would be void of story and good characters"

Please point out where my review says that exactly.

It specifically says that the show is 'little more than' one long tournament fight and that not much seems to happen outside of major battle after major battle. That's it. It actually says nothing specific to the characters and does not make any such statement about the show as a whole.

-Z


My bad, that was taken from the previous posts. But that part of nothing happening is wrong though. But let's leave it like that. This is just another case of "Tons of people don't and won't agree with you, and vice-versa".
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