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NEWS: Hollywood Wants BitTorrent Dead


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Stueypark



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:21 pm Reply with quote
It's hard to say there'd be backlash for enforcement of the copyright laws within the anime community. The only real form of "blacklash" people can do is to stop watching anime and I doubt that will happen.

The RIAA also proved, that through 12 well publicized civil cases, that legal action does in fact scare people off of file sharing. A number of groups have shown that since that happened the quantity of music files being transferred dropped by over 33%
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
What I don't get is: why do some institutions refuse to use modern ways of diffusing their products, or at least leaving the consumer a good, a real possibility to evaluate it? I mean, look at the video-game industry: they provide a demo for their games, that's a non-complete but freely downloadable version of their work which allows consumer to evaluate the product and helps them to decide if yes or no they'll buy it in the end... Where is the problem into acting the same for Hollywood and animes companies?


It's called a trailer.

Quote:
Another possibility is: instead of providing a vague trailer and uninteresting credits sequence of their show in the extras section of the DVD they could give an entire (first) episode of a serie or OAV which would help the consumer to fully evaluate the animation, plot and translation quality. For movies, this could be the first 10 or 15 minutes or something like that...


Because they may not be able to do that under their license. From what I know they had to get special permission for the ani-minis and NewType and such.

Quote:
I think the "unlicensoned" anime torrent servers are "relatively" safe at least from lawsuits from most anime companies for the same reason that they don't go after fansub groups that stop fansubing a series once they know / inform them it's licensed.

It's the server that host licensed anime which may become future targets or ones that have anime mixed in with the downloads of movies that are still playing in the theaters.


And places like that get them from the fansub servers. The MPAA will take care of the other ones

Quote:
Also, about the republicans in congress. Yes, they traditionally have favored business, but also historically that didn't mean passing laws that helped business, but just leaving the businesses alone. That's why I don't think these things that just got defeated in congress will survive, because the republicans would rather create less beauracracy


Then you haven't been paying attention the past 4 years. Instead of being the party of small government and fiscal responsibility they have created the biggest government and biggest deficit. Those days are long, long gone.
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JHawkNH



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
Posts: 42
Location: Minnesota
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:33 pm Reply with quote
Sir_Brass wrote:

Also, about the republicans in congress. Yes, they traditionally have favored business, but also historically that didn't mean passing laws that helped business, but just leaving the businesses alone. That's why I don't think these things that just got defeated in congress will survive, because the republicans would rather create less beauracracy and just let Hollywood deal with the problem with the laws that can currently be used by prosecutors against the offenders. This isn't saying that that's what WILL happen, it's just that if the rep's act like their party historically has tried to act like, that's what will most likely happen.


You also forgot the most importent fact. Hollywood tends to be more liberal and usually supportive of Democtrates. The Republicans may do nothing about the situation just to p*#s Hollywood off. Twisted Evil

Quote:
It's hard to say there'd be backlash for enforcement of the copyright laws within the anime community. The only real form of "blacklash" people can do is to stop watching anime and I doubt that will happen.

The RIAA also proved, that through 12 well publicized civil cases, that legal action does in fact scare people off of file sharing. A number of groups have shown that since that happened the quantity of music files being transferred dropped by over 33%


Two point:

1. With as small size of the anime market, 10,000 copies sold is considered a hit DVD, it would not take many anime fans to have a large effect on the market.

2. 33% of an estimated 30 million downloads a day is a large number, but it didn't seam to scare away the other 20 million.
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cyrax777



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 1825
Location: the desert
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:43 pm Reply with quote
except the RIAA you notice almost all the things so fare just cease and desit letters. you know why Its alot cheaper to pay your lawyer to shoot off one then to file a lawsuit and take it to court. Especisly with bittorrent since all the tracker contains is a torrent file witch in and of itself is just a hash file and a check sum. One could aurge it points to infringing material but unlike actly hosting said file on the server its harder to prove.


But still this has already starting to boil down the the same aurgument we just had in the other thread so lets try not to go there.
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RHunter



Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:52 pm Reply with quote
JHawkNH wrote:
You also forgot the most importent fact. Hollywood tends to be more liberal and usually supportive of Democtrates. The Republicans may do nothing about the situation just to p*#s Hollywood off. Twisted Evil


Actually, since about when Napster took off, the arrangements have been reversed, and the MPAA and RIAA have contributed significantly more to Republicans than to Democrats. The Republicans, in turn, have obliged Hollywood by constantly expanding the scope of copyright laws. Many things related to copyright infringement of MPAA/RIAA-produced works are now categorized as terrorism, thanks to your oh-so-libertarian Republican government, and even more will be if Dubya manages to ram through PATRIOT II.

That said, the chances of this move affecting digisubs are next to none. Sure, some fansubbing groups in the US might fold up, but they'll be quickly replaced by groups in Canada and Britain. (And possibly the rest of Europe, as English-language subs will have larger audiences than specific language subs) animesuki's already located in Germany. And if you think they'll be able to get bittorrent clients banned, you're deluding yourself. Blizzard, among other large companies, now uses (carefully packaged) bittorrent clients to distribute patches. Ban bittorrent clients and you're going to piss off the tech industry.

Of course, some of the more rabid anti-sub wingnuts here would want to do this anyway. Rolling Eyes
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the_soultaker



Joined: 25 Mar 2004
Posts: 685
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 2:59 pm Reply with quote
The Republicans are virtually behind any legistration,rule or what-have-ye these days, so what else is new?
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Romuska
Subscriber



Joined: 02 Mar 2004
Posts: 818
PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:36 pm Reply with quote
Maybe if a majority of the films that come out weren't crap (I would know, I work in a video store and are forced to watch them a lot) then maybe people would be willing to pay for them. Maybe if DVD retail prices weren't so damn high people would be willing to pay for them, particularly anime DVD's. If it didn't cost me $10.00 to see a movie at a multiplex and $13 for a real theater, then maybe I would be willing to support the extinction of bittornet. But since hell isn't freezing over anytime soon, I don't think I will.
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Guilhem



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 181
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 4:54 am Reply with quote
And I think that's the main problem in the end: about 90% of everything produced is crap (Sturgeon's law), hence all these P2P things a while back and for the exact same reasons, which is that people are tired to pay for sh!tty stuff though companies prioritize such productions because they usually cost cheaper... Vicious circle

Sword of Whedon wrote:
Quote:
What I don't get is: why do some institutions refuse to use modern ways of diffusing their products, or at least leaving the consumer a good, a real possibility to evaluate it? I mean, look at the video-game industry: they provide a demo for their games, that's a non-complete but freely downloadable version of their work which allows consumer to evaluate the product and helps them to decide if yes or no they'll buy it in the end... Where is the problem into acting the same for Hollywood and animes companies?


It's called a trailer.

Yeah, I know, the reason why I said "instead of providing a vague trailer and uninteresting credits sequence of their show in the extras section of the DVD". By this, I meant that such sample is not informative enough to allow the customer take his decision. To this, add the above-mentioned reason concerning the fact that 90% of productions are crap and you'll know why people are naturally circumspect. I think this are the main reasons behind fansub, and its necessity.

Sword of Whedon wrote:
Quote:
Another possibility is: instead of providing a vague trailer and uninteresting credits sequence of their show in the extras section of the DVD they could give an entire (first) episode of a serie or OAV which would help the consumer to fully evaluate the animation, plot and translation quality. For movies, this could be the first 10 or 15 minutes or something like that...


Because they may not be able to do that under their license. From what I know they had to get special permission for the ani-minis and NewType and such.

Then, instead of attacking Bittorrent -which is open-source anyway, so their problem is not here in the sense that they can't attack it- instead of requesting anti-BT laws, they should request laws which allow them that their license provide that. If video-game compagnies have the right to do this, why not Hollywood and anime producers? Aren't they into the entertainment bizness aswell?
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aerynflame



Joined: 15 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:30 am Reply with quote
If they go ahead and kill bit torrent the people in the anime industry who will be most hurt are the Anime companies like Media Factory and Bandai, etc. They will will be asking the fans to buy blind or off jazzed up previews. The best thing ADV ever did was put those DVDs with full episodes in the Newtype mag. I mean, who goes to Best Buy and without having seen a movie, take a look at the box, and say I am going to spend 25-30 hard earned dollars on it? Maybe if the fan base for anime were lawyers and doctors that had the money to spend on it, but not the teens-20 year olds that are anime fans.

It would be different if we had access to these series (like if we lived in Japan). But we don't here in the US. The only good way to get to know if you want to buy a series, that isn't already on tv here, is to preview it online. And the only way anime companies can know which series would be profitable if brought over here is through the bittorrent fansubs.

That said, I actually agree with the MPAA about the movies that are currently in the theatres. If its in a theatre then there is access to them and shouldn't be downloaded. But, as far as the older movies are concerned, whats the difference between downloading them and recording them off cable? Where do you draw the line?

I know some people are abusing the fansubs, but thats the world. For every system there are people wrongly willing to abuse it. And the rest of us have to pay. But, to those anime companies who want to sell us DVDs (Media Factory), please don't cut off your nose to spite your face. We won't buy them if we don't know what they are. [/img]
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:25 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Then, instead of attacking Bittorrent -which is open-source anyway, so their problem is not here in the sense that they can't attack it- instead of requesting anti-BT laws, they should request laws which allow them that their license provide that. If video-game compagnies have the right to do this, why not Hollywood and anime producers? Aren't they into the entertainment bizness aswell?


Because these are licensing deals, and law has nothing to do with it. You keep forgetting that unlike Hollywood and the video game companies. Anime companies DO NOT OWN 99% of the product they distribute. They are under licensing agreements. And they're not attackign torrent, they're attacking the sites that provide illegal downloads. Torrent is a perfectly legit app, and a great great program. They're not, they CAN'T zap it. They can zap the torrent sites.

Quote:
If they go ahead and kill bit torrent the people in the anime industry who will be most hurt are the Anime companies like Media Factory and Bandai, etc. They will will be asking the fans to buy blind or off jazzed up previews.


You mean just like every other form of film entertainment? I remember Gattaca, it was advertised as an action/chase movie using footage from 5min of the film. Deal with it. You are not entitled to free previews.

Quote:
And the only way anime companies can know which series would be profitable if brought over here is through the bittorrent fansubs.


Bull. There are a thousand ways to judge it, especially after ten years+ of experience and market data, data based on people you know will buy it.
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country214



Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:37 pm Reply with quote
This is just something Hollywood would do. They always have to be the center of some kind of lawsuite. But the thing is most of use download the anime from BT. I could give a F less about movies, and most the anime I watch never makes it to the US, and the thing is when an anime starts to appear in America it is then taking off the BT sites.
BT works on donations, not on profiet, all their doing is providing us with our favorite animes that can not be bought by US citizens. I beleive Hollywood should just drop this fight, once and for all.
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
BT works on donations, not on profiet, all their doing is providing us with our favorite animes that can not be bought by US citizens. I beleive Hollywood should just drop this fight, once and for all.


Can't be bought by US citizens?

http://www.amazon.co.jp
http://www.hmv.co.jp
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp
http://www.yesasia.com
http://www.amotokyo.com

You know, I doubt anyone would have problems with people posting DVDSubber scripts for the Japanese discs. So there, fansubbers keep operating, and you CAN buy Japanese DVDs.
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Godaistudios



Joined: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 2075
Location: Albuquerque, NM (the land of entrapment)
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:59 pm Reply with quote
Except that DVDSubber scripts are still a violation of the Berne convention since it's an unauthorized translation...

You are right though, due to the lack of high distribution, it is unlikely that the companies would have any major reason to go after them.
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2004 5:52 pm Reply with quote
That and the scripts are useless without the Japanese DVD.

(Yes I realize they can be used for other things, but it's still how it's set up)

Malibu actuallly published a book of Captain Harlock scripts if memory serves.
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AM



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 16
Location: All over Earth
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:57 am Reply with quote
country214 wrote:
I beleive Hollywood should just drop this fight, once and for all.


Looks like they're doing quite the opposite.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/14/finnish_police_raid_bittorrent_site/

Maybe just a heads up for BT sites, but I wouldn't be suprised if MPAA goes after bigger fishes (remember Napster).
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