Forum - View topicAll About Licensing: Part III
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Yup, you got it correctly. 
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ShinnFlowen
 Posts: 141 |
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Justin should write textbooks because I learned so much from just reading a few paragraphs from him than all the BS these big publishers put out in economic or accounting text books.
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11492 |
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Great articles!
What I'd like to know a little more about is music licensing and product placement. A friend of mine is a bicycle racer and I was stunned when she told me her team had to pay Pepsi to put their logo on their clothing, instead of the other way around. I've seen similar baffling instances in anime, where they have to edit out brand names because the company won't let them use it for free. Why, when companies pay movies to put their products in the movie, would a company object to a Pizza Hut box or a Sony tv shown in an anime for free? If they don't object to it being part of the content, do they then demand payment? Why would they veto free advertising? And do the Japanese companies negotiate these rights on their end, or do they just go ahead and use the logos and sort it out later for foreign distribution? You know I'm thinking of Tiger and Bunny as the prime example - are the licensors paying the companies for the logos, or are the companies paying for the product placement? I'm sure someone's paying somebody. 
I'm also thinking of Monster and how that was handled here so differently from Master Keaton, which apparently used Cadbury and other logos without a problem (though maybe they did get permission), while Monster was editing out brand logos left and right (although I can understand why Racke and Werther's might not have wanted their brands associated with murder. ).
And then of course there's the maze of music licensing. I can understand why Rave Master redid the soundtrack - the series was so heavily edited and rearranged it would have been impossible to sync up the original music. But again, Monster is the craziest example I can think of: although the OP and the soundtrack are both credited to the same composer, only the OP made it through the licensing unscathed. And instead of writing an entirely new score for foreign distribution, only some of it was new, and some of the original music was repositioned. What sort of licensing dust-ups could account for that? I know no one who knows will ever tell, I'm just curious as to possibilities from an insider point of view.
Last edited by Gina Szanboti on Sat Jun 16, 2012 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tanteikingdomkey
 Posts: 2348 |
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LOL all three boomed pretty hard from what I know. ESPECIALLY Night raid. Night Raid was supposed to be a HUGE hit and it flopped big time. that is why sentai got the licenses for so little and ended up getting the bluray rights (and making a dub since it was a bluray release). the show is actually very good and was fun to work on at times. but the info dumps that had to be done due to it's time period really made people think it was boring. |
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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@Gina - IIRC, with Tiger and Bunny the companies paid to have their logos in the series. I've heard tell because of that the series didn't have the usual sponsorship screens that most anime has at the beginning after the credits.
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3989 |
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That would be quite cool. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2240 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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One scenario is that there were multiple BGM composers, and one of them has their international rights handled by a different association than the other. JASRAC is pretty much the standard for within Japan, so any composer HAS to be a member there, but some composers are not JASRAC members and handle their own rights, either domestically or overseas. "Syncro" rights are necessary to sell/create a video program with that music as background music, and those are separate from mechanical rights (the right to create a disc and sell it). For JASRAC artists, these rights are basically bundled up and sold for a standard percentage for within Japan (and overseas). However if the artist isn't using JASRAC to handle overseas rights, they can demand whatever they think their music is worth. These rights have legislated percentages for within Japan, but there's no such rules internationally and therefore they can demand exorbitant fees and it would require those BGM tracks to be cut. Another scenario is if there are a couple composers and there is an ongoing dispute over who owns the rights to a particular track. In that case, either you wait for that to be resolved, or you choose one of the other and risk being sued, or you cut out the track entirely. Both of those are plausible scenarios. |
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reanimator
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This picture might not be directly related but it sure provides some info of funding an anime.[/quote] What is the source of the picture? It looks like scan from a magazine. Looking at the picture, sponsors whips up 50 million yen. Middlemen ad agency takes 10 million yen from 50 million. TV network takes $20 million and local broadcasters take $12 million. Production ends up with remaining 8 million or $80,000 (using 100 yen=$1 conversion). |
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aereus
Posts: 576 |
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Someone was asking earlier about what kind of money the American licensors make on shows:
I have no numbers either, but if you just look at the state of the industry over the past 5-7 years, you can get a pretty good picture of it.... TL;DR: US anime companies are trying to make an entire revenue stream out of just one portion of the total revenue stream in Japan -- where it includes not only the media, but soundtracks, drama CDs, live concerts, character merchandise, etc. It's no surprise they are struggling when the US market won't bear Japanese prices on media, and anime/manga aren't a natural part of the culture. Anime is a niche market, so sales numbers are small -- at best a few thousand, at worse a few hundred. And at the US pricepoints are a tiny fraction of the Japanese prices, so margins are small. (For a manga comparison: Naruto sells 50K per vol in NA, while the JP original breaks 1M per vol) Some of the license costs from ADV's bankruptcy proceedings were posted last year, and they were in the range of $150K-$1M dollars. So it's no surprise to me that ADV wasn't able to make money on most of those properties. (One could make the case that it was exhorbitant Min. Guarantees that are the problem) If you consider that 4-6K sales per volume is the vague break-even point for shows in Japan. (For a total of 24-36K sales for a 1cour show) And their average MSRP is 6200yen... Each sale in Japan could be worth the profit margin of something like 20 sales in the US. And I really doubt you see a US release of most titles breaking 10k... Most importantly though -- In the US as in Japan -- manga and merchandise are far more popular for sales than the actual media. 3rd party anime dealers have almost disappeared from conventions, and even manga isn't all that plentiful. But vendors carrying things like pillows, plushies, figures, etc. have skyrocketed. |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11492 |
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@samuelp: Thanks for the info - very informative. But if there is more than one composer, wouldn't they be credited? Or does only the lead composer get the title credits, with all the wrangling over co-creator rights hidden behind the scenes?
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Dumnerd
Posts: 152 |
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Very enlightening article.
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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This makes no sense to me, Gina. If they are not being paid by Pepsi, why would they want to wear the logo? What possible rationale could there be for athletes to provide free advertising for a sugared beverage when everyone from Michelle Obama to pediatricians to parent groups express concerns about childhood obesity and diabetes every day? |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11492 |
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I asked her that, but this was probably 15 years ago, so I don't remember her answer for sure. I think it was because they were selling branded gear to support the team or something, and apparently people liked having the logo on them - made them look more official or something? I do remember wondering why people would want rather than tolerate Pepsi clothing, but then I wonder why people pay to freely advertise all sorts of branded shirts and caps or choose to advertise their car dealer with plate frames. So I guess Pepsi thought if someone was making any money off the shirts or gear or whatever, Pepsi needed a cut of that.
I dunno, like I said, it baffled me at the time, so I think I didn't get an answer that satisfied me then either, but didn't feel like interrogating her about it after my initial wtf. All I know for sure is that she said they paid Pepsi to use the logo. But even if I totally misunderstood her, I'm still left with the question of why a company would deny permission for free product placement, unless the material reflected negatively on the corporate image. I don't see how Pizza Hut's image is harmed by American viewers seeing LeLouche eat their product, so why the need to edit it out? I know you need to protect usage of your trademarks in order to keep them in force, but why say no to positive advertising when you don't have to pay for it? I'm thinking there's some legality or extra work here I'm not yet grasping. Like no one even asked PH and just edited it out because it was easier than the paperwork involved to leave it.
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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Well there are laws against trademark infringment, and large corporations and their attorneys are generally a pretty risk-averse bunch. If you have a brand that you've built up over the years, you probably want to control every aspect of its use and worry about how uncontrolled uses might damage your image. The production committee certainly doesn't want to be dealing with possible infringment suits either. So we're left with NcDonalds and the like.
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bemused Bohemian
Posts: 404 Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville) |
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Kudos to Justin for the informative articles about licensing.
Gee, I can't wait for release of Saliva Princess! It sounds excruciatingly intriguing. Will it be tacked on to the cool series MGX currently being simulcast on CR, a series I really like.....really! Re trademark infringements: good luck convincing the Chinese to kowtow over their violations over the years copying everything. |
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