Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2007-03-16]
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Steroid
Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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That's true, but I wonder if it's a relative- or an absolute-quantity issue. That is to say, if having n fans willing to watch a dub, and only .1n fans who want to watch it subbed (I'm just picking numbers out of the air here), is enough to have the anime aired dubbed, would having 10n dub fans and n sub fans be enough to warrant starting a second network to air it subbed? |
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SalarymanJoe
Posts: 468 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA |
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I'm kinda inclined to agree as well. Though, I don't think that ikillchickin is necessarily off the mark, but while someone may enjoy watching a lot of anime for free, I'm one of those pricks that believes being a real fan does involve some financial sacrifice. And not the kind that means you have to buy new hard drives for more piracy.
I think this poster speaks wisely. The broadcast of dubs, to me, isn't a "let's stomp all over sub fans" or some other fanciful conspiracy theory. In the US, we have predominately private television networks (even out public networks aren't completely government funded) so at the end of the day, programming needs to reach the broadest audience possible. And, like an earlier poster touched on, sub fans may make up a majority of anime fans (and I'm skeptical of that) but they aren't necessarily the fans looking for anime on TV. Broadcasting dubs, by appealing to a wide array of people, is great for getting people who aren't already fans or new fans looking for something interesting to watch. There was a post earlier (sorry, too lazy to quote) that talking about all people do once a dub is broadcast is bitch. I think, whether the bitching is unfounded or not, that new folks exposed only to a broadcast dub, these are the best customers to advertise getting to also buy DVDs. Not only do they get the English language broadcast crew they're already familiar with, but they get the Japanese audio and then they can make their own decisions. If digital networks can provide multiple formats to view material, great. If not, then broadcasting dubbed anime can still be used for, from this fan's perspective, its intended purpose. Drew "Suiko" Sutton http://akibaren.blogspot.com |
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taiki
Posts: 2 |
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Depending on how open minded/afraid of getting sued your college might be, if you work a campus job, declaring your official religion to be Otakin might get you alot of leeway for getting time off for the 'Con season...
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Kouji
Posts: 978 |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Just as one doesn't see subtitled movies on tv all that much.
All the sub fans should work on their local stations that do air such films to see if they will air subtitled anime. It's your best shot at seeing it on tv. I always found it interesting AZN aired the dubbed version of several titles instead of the sub or raw. Last edited by CCSYueh on Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dardre
Posts: 166 |
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That's an interesting question...In my opinion, assuming n = average weekly ratings for CN, then yes I think CN would launch another sister station. And if there aren't enough sub fans for that, say only 1/2n, then I think they would, at the least, have 'subtitled hour' or something similar. There have been times when CN has shown subtitled anime; I believe they showed Blue Sub 6 subbed at one point. It all comes down to numbers. If CN can show some hard and steady numbers on the amount of viewers that want to see shows subbed, and that number is large enough, they can then take that to advertisers and say, "See, these numbers represent a potential new consumer base that you might not be reaching." Demand makes the TV world turn |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Exactly. With many shows, such as 'Bleach,' YTV airs it once in primetime and then again late at night. The late-night airing would be a great opportunity to test the audience reception for subtitles. There's little at risk.
Not at all. Almost everyone has a VCR or DVR. The two versions provide the elment of choice. Any individual can watch the show in the format he/she prefers.
There's an increasing amount of anime on TV. So the hopes that earlier fans had are now coming true. Why stop hoping there? If anime in a dubbed form can go from niche to mainstream, so potentially can anime in a subtitled form. The 'take what I can get' situation is why I more frequently turn away from TV to alternate avenues for media, such as Zip.ca (like Netflix in the U.S.) and legit online sources. But there's only so far that can go. A Canadian channel is about to air the dubbed version of a series I've been wanting to see but that Zip doesn't stock. So I'm looking for little out-of-the-way rental outlets that carry the DVDs. It'd be great if instead, that Canadian channel could also air a subtitled version in an alternate timeslot (especially since it's a niche channel to begin with). But given it won't, I'm not going to suddenly start subscribing to that channel for heavily compromised content. And that's what dubbing is, at least for me: a heavy compromise. It hinders, rather than helps, the source material. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Except TV is the main place anime is watched because it's not just the dedicated fans who are watching. Dedicated fans are, by definition, a niche minority of the total audience.
On the contrary, people whining about dubs--esepecially within the industry--are one of the reasons that dubs are getting better. When broadcasters consider airing programs late in the evening for a mostly adult audience, they need it to not be utterly laughable. So a series like, for example, 'Paranoia Agent' or 'Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex' needs a good dub to reach its target audience. If everyone was happy with dubbing no matter the quality, then no, the quality would never have any incentive to improve. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Yeah, but I doubt there are alot of non-hardcore fans who like Subbed. Infact this is exactly the reason they show Dubs on TV.
You have a point there. However, it should be constructive critisism so to speak. What I mean by this is the attitude that Dubs suck so I only watch Subbed, isnt helpful. You can complain about poor Dubs, but dont refrain from watching Dubs all together. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Given the inherent limitations of dubbing, no matter the skills or intentions of those involved, I will indeed refrain from watching dubs altogether ... or at least as much as possible. If you're watching subtitles like I am, it really doesn't matter whether or not the dub track is any good. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Thats the problem right there! If lotsa people take your attitude, wheres the incentive for companies to ever improve their dubs, No matter how good they do the Dub, this bunch of people will still refuse to watch it. If people are at least willing to give a Dub a chance, then therse actually a reason to do a good job. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Most people don't take my attitude. Most people are willing to give dubs a chance. Hence those nice TV ratings. As far as I'm concerned, given its weaknesses, there's no reason for dubbing to exist at all. But I bear no ill will toward those who do enjoy it ... and I wish you all the luck in the world in improving its quality. And the people who handle dubbing don't have to worry about the little niche of us fans who don't listen to their work. They've got plenty enough viewers who want them to do a good job at what they do. I'll fully admit I was introduced to anime via dubbing. But man, was it ever hard to take that English dialogue in 'Akira' seriously. Visually it was the finest movie I'd ever seen at that point, but the audio was the pits. Even now, I run across dubbing and it's still generally laughable. The 'next episode' promos on Eureka Seven, the aforementioned age gap between the brothers on Fullmetal Alchemist, the fury-free voice of Mugen on Samurai Champloo ... so many examples of the performance being lost in translation ... even in the shows that everyone hails for quality dubbing. And that's what has helped lead me to believe not so much that subtitles are great, but that dubbing is terribly flawed. All dubbing. So really, there's no incentive whatsoever for me to listen to it at all. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Yeah, and its a damn good thing most people dont take your attitude. Still though some do which is still bad. Luckilly, there are enough people that will give dubs a chance that they are improving. Still though it would be better if more people gave em a chance.
Look im sorry to flame but thats gotta be one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Dubs are crutial to bringing people into Anime. North Americans dont like Subtitles. The only way people will get into Anime and also the only way Anime will ever become at all mainsteam is through Dubs. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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That is the reason for dubs to exist, because others enjoy it. I find it incredibly sad that you would argue dubs shouldn't exist at all just because you prefer the other option. Regarding Akira's dialogue, that is ancient and poorly dubbed and isn't even remotely representative of modern dubbing. When Akira was dubbed I also never watched dubs, but they've come a long way. And regarding the age gap between the brothers, that much is obvious, Ed's age was at a point he shouldn't have a high voice but Al no longer has a body, there's no logical reason he would hit puberty or encounter a voice change. I think they did the right thing with the difference in voices. I also thought Mugen was acted incredibly well, I actually preferred the english Mugen to the Japanese version. Of course, I'm beginning to wonder if your views are so deep rooted that you're closed to the possibilities of a good dub regardless. I would argue nothing was lost in translation, because when you cross oceans and societies things don't just translate through words alone, actions and methods also are translated, there's more to it than just taking your "Japanese to English Dictionary" out and generating a wooden representation of what was said. Sorry, but there's little you said that didn't stink of obscene bias, heck, you practically admitted to as much. It really doesn't matter, you can be bias and closed minded but it still doesn't put you in a position to say dubs shouldn't exist simply because they don't fit specifically what you want. Like it or not, there are others in this world besides yourself. |
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Dardre
Posts: 166 |
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So you've seen every dub of every anime released in the last, say, six years? If not, then you cannot truly say that they all suck, since opinion is based on personal experience. All you can do is parrot back what others say. Every series I listed in a previous post, I have personally watched in both the English and Japanese tracks, so I can, due to personal experience, say that those dubs do not 'suck'. From your own words, it sounds like you're not even willing to give dubs a chance; instead you immediately condemn it, sight unseen. To you it seems that the original Japanese audio is virtually 'Holy Writ', and should never be tampered with. Hate to burst your bubble, but even the Japanese change things. Just look at the differences between an original manga version and the animated version. By your standards, an anime should follow it's manga source to the letter with no deviations. So, by extention, all anime based on a manga is wrong and should not exist. Here's another interesting point. Your 'perfect' subs aren't...perfect translations I mean. They are transliterations, not direct translations. If they were to directly translate word-for-word, the subtitles would read something like this: "Into the bath, Yuki went." Or, considering that many times a character doesn't actually say another character's name, but instead use things like onee-chan, onii-chan, sensei, sempai ect. it might actually read more like this: "Into the bath, nee-san went." Frankly, considering your stated stance, debating you is pointless. So I'll just end with this: Using a 15-20 year old dub as an example that all dubs suck does not lend your argument any weight at all. In fact it subtracts from it. |
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