Forum - View topicNEWS: Bandai: Do Not Fansub Ghost in the Shell Film
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Lyrai
Posts: 174 Location: Potatoes (Idaho) |
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I see a lot of "lol good luck enforcing it", quite a bit of "screw you bandai they help you promote it so stop going after them" and a bit of "good job Bandi" in this thread. Which is sad, really.
I download fansubs. I watch them. When I see that a company has licesnsed them, they get deleted, and if need be, I trash the CDs. The fansubs did what they were supposed to do - get someone hooked on the show. There is no real numbers for this, but I DO say that it is rather silly to assume Fansubs have NO positive effect. Companies like FUNi/ADV/whatever may or may not use fansubber interest to gauge how much a show might be worth. Hell, JP Licensors may use fansubs to ask for a higher price. THere's no numbers, and I for one would like to see a company tell us such a thing.. But it'll never happen. Why? Because then you get this: [Company] "We licensed Anime because fansubbers had a good interest in it" [Fans] "Hooray! [Company] "Now can you pleae stop subbing it?" [Fans] Why should we? You admitted that we helped you, so go screw yourself" My take, and this could be wrong, is that if a company admits that fansubs influenced their decision, fansubbers will get it in their head that they will have free reign - after all, the company admitted that they helped. Ego thing, mostly., I know it came across jumbled, maybe someone else can try to phrase what I'm saying. And I do want to say, I did download one thing of GitS once. The 4-1-06 Adult Swim episode, where they spliced in the farts, namely because I missed it. Deleted it after I watched it, but I still downloaded it. Wonder if I should go out and buy the DVD that that episode was on just to be extra-sure. |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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Lol I make like 2 fairly small comments and its suddenly my thread? For the record I am not trying to justify anything as I feel no moral qualnms whatsoever at the prospect of piracy nor do I in any way think myself superior to anyone because I choose to aquire things differently. Your inevitable slavery comments make me lol tho. Not so much since its a ridiculous comparison but because I always imagine myself in a puffy shirt, eyepatch and shoulder parrot whipping a Japanese animator aboard a ship whilst shouting "What's your name!?" "Watanabe-san!" he replies, *whip* "I say its Toby!" *whip, whip, whip* If thats not damn cool I don't know what is! (Disclaimer, before anyone gets on a rant about me triavilizing something historycal blah blah blah please notice that Keonin opened that one up with his colorful analogy.)
You misunderstand, the idea (not mine) is that content would make money not through its sale to consumers but by providing a sort of virtual add space. Think of that can of coke seen in your favorite movie but on a grander scale. Again this is just one idea and I would be interested to know what some of you think about and its feasibility.
I think setting limits on copyright timewise (say 5 years of exclusivity to make a profit) and allow legal secondary means of distribuition by third parties when they are not for profit and remain on a limited scale.
I wouldn't quite say the drive it, but yes from my own experience they have always seemed like a beneficial part of the industry. Yes there are no hard numbers on either side so its their word against our and I am personally inclined to believe a fan over a corporation, but again, nothing is conclusive here. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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I don't see the point of fansubbing that movie either, warning or no warning. But once again, everyone in the "fansubbing will kill sales" camp has forgotten that a movie of this stature is going to be ripped 7 ways from Sunday once the official R1 release comes out, so these efforts to stop fansubbers are only going to delay people's ability to get it for free if they want to. I'm not saying this in a "lol piracy rulz u cant stop us" way, I'm just making a reasonable prediction on what's going to happen. From what I've seen, efforts to stop groups or get torrents removed just wind up shifting things to other sectors of the Internet, and it'll only steel the resolve of distribution sites that make it their goal to make all anime available for download. Since stopping fansubbing / online distribution is problematic, it's my opinion that along with going after the more insidious forms of piracy (DVD-rippers, bootleg sellers), companies should focus on the things that they can control instead of blowing smoke about things they can't control. This means, especially in Bandai's case, not releasing discs that fail it... Escaflowne and other Anime Legends discs have had trouble playing, Chris B at AoD couldn't get subtitles to work on a couple of My-Hime discs, numerous people have issues with Bandai's DVD cases in general breaking or letting discs free during transit (like a couple of my Bebop ReMix cases), dub quality all over the map (some of the best, like Bebop and Wolf's Rain, but also some of the worst, like Love Hina & Crest of the Stars)... And of course, there are other issues, like repeated catalogue re-releases (Please Teacher! is on vers. 4, Wolf's Rain and Love Hina are on vers. 3) that de-value those critical initial single-DVD releases. What does all of this have to do with GitS: SSS? Pretty much nothing, but the "sad but true" reality is that in today's corrupt, "free information" online community, simply giving "piracy is wrong" lectures is not going to stop illegal distribution -- there has to be incentive to buy products, either in the form of artboxes and other extras, or simply by making sure that people aren't spending $20-$35 on discs that A) won't work correctly or B) will be available 1.5 years later for a fraction of the cost (back to Wolf's Rain, 1st disc + box July 2004, complete collection November 2005) That stuff is all within company control. Yes, fansubbers have become less ethical and more self-serving over the years, but the companies could still learn a few things about presentation -- there are people that believe fansubs are better than DVDs for reasons unrelated to cost, after all. |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Production I.G.'s site says it cost 3.20 million dollars to make. Is this the most expensive OVA?
So,do they stand to lose their shirts if another Akane Maniax happens? |
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RDespair
 Posts: 244 Location: California |
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5 years? As someone who would like to end up writing full time eventually as a profession, that sounds awful. Not only would that mean that I wouldn't be able to build up a catalog of works that could still earn me money in later years, but I daresay book buying in general would drop dramatically if everyone knew that all you had to do was wait for 5 years and then you'd be able to download a free copy of whatever book you wanted. |
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Deliverator
Posts: 8 |
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I think it's sad when companis put out threats like this against their targeted consumers, I think it can be very harmful to buisness, but I respect their decision to do so. It is their right to do so, and if they feel they have to do such a thing, then so be it.
What's sadder though is when companies ask fansubbers politely, as so many have, to drop a liscenced title, the fansubbers lash out like I saw in that anime junkies email to UV. Can't say I like seeing fansubbed series dropped in the middle-end of a tv run due to liscensing.(I have little patience to wait 2 years to finally pick up where left off). However I do love seeing animes being liscenced and brought to the US, especially if the show gets liscenced before it even begins it's tv run, and makes room for a fansub group to do a less fortunate series that wasn't liscenced or picked for fansubbing. Im a true fan through and through, I love seeing anime, and I love to see it grow in success, cause that means even more anime ! (please excuse my grammer and spelling, I seem to suffer from the illeteracy disease that has spread through the internet) |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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What exact harm is being done to the consumers, tell me. What's happening in this particular situation is that the companies are making sure that the customers are getting the best quality products that are offered, not third rate crapy audio type anime. If customers are going to go out and download fansubs, that's what's harming not only the companies, but the customers also because then they can't support the companies to make more anime series. And promote anime the correct way. |
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hagakure|returns
Posts: 407 |
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Wait wait, they are going after the fansubber, not the consumer. What are you talking about? Second of all, if this hurt business because "fansub" fan spite 'em for doing it, then those same people gotta look at themself and ask "why am I mad mad at bandai in the first place?" Because fan couldn't get a free copy beforehand? It's things like this that makes the entire fansub downloading community look like crying idiots. The reason for this warning is because they don't want people that would have brought the DVD but instead, download the fansub because it's easily accessible and fansub is easily accessible. Even though they can't stop fansubbing as a whole, they are just protecting what they are entitle to and it's a good start if they do wish to enforce copyright law in the future. It's their dicision, it's their product. Last edited by hagakure|returns on Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:19 am; edited 5 times in total |
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vroenis
 Posts: 61 Location: Australia |
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Pertinent to this discussion I think, would be this ANN perspective from 1999.
Read the entire editorial, I think it shows some great perspective and amazing foresight given the time it was written. |
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bayoab
Posts: 831 |
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As the technical person, let me just say that you are completely incorrect. Especially on a torrent. Your IP address is clear as daylight on a torrent. It is impossible to hide it. (Think about it, the tracker has to tell other clients where to find you.)
This is not about fansub hate. There is no reason to fansub Gits:SSS to begin with except blatent piracy. This is airing on TV too. There is seriously no reason to even justify "fansubbing" this. (I'd like to see the pirate sympathiser who came off as a total idiot justify this with a reason that is not piracy.)
Edit: Added quotes, this isnt fansubbing, this is just piratesubbing. Last edited by bayoab on Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:14 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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It isn't realistic at all; it's a hostile "concession" he wants to give to the people who actually make this stuff, and it implies a false sense of ownership he has over these properties. He considers himself to be the one in control, and he feels it should be up to him to dictate to the artist how he should be able to consume the artist's work. Ultimately it's just a very selfish way of thinking. He isn't willing to actually admit that he doesn't think the artists deserve any compensation for their work, or if they do, it's not his responsibility to actually compensate them; he wants what he wants and he wants it for free, and he ALSO doesn't want anyone to actually take him to task for that attitude. The underlying motives here are obvious and frankly sickening. It's anti-capitalist. What makes it worse is how many of these fansubbers and fansub consumers exist under the pretense that somehow the fansub version is more "pure", more "righteous", more justified than the R1 release, that they should be saluted for being "real fans", thanked endlessly for "promoting anime", never called into question or challenged nor should they ever have to actually be remotely introspective for a second... and yet they are the first to completely spit in the face of anyone who dare tell them that maybe they should actually pay the entertainers who entertain them, especially the artists themselves. It's sad, and juvenile, and a ludicrous, delusional self-serving fantasy. That ANY fansubber would see this as a "challenge" means that they are not actually fans nor do they care at all about anime; it's about one-upsmanship, piracy, theft for theft's sake, and fleeting, meaningless internet "fame" inside a small, obscure circle of teenagers who will only forget eachother once they actually do something meaningful with their lives. It's depressing. |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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I for one will be downloading the fansub, without guilt. I will never buy more of their dubtitled, close captions for subs, non-backup-able, drm'ed crap.
If they provide it at a very low cost in an open format (divx/xvid or some such format) that I can easily move around between computers, they stand a chance at making $1 (and probaby not more than $1) off me. Down with Copyright! Down with Licensors! Down with voice 'talent'! Down with Localization! Up with free media, fair use, and privacy! Culture in it's various forms are the property of the people, and we will do with it what we wish: rip, subtitle, scanlate, make amvs of, and distribute with impunity. Long live fansubs! Last edited by nagashi on Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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You're an idiot. |
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nagashi
Posts: 78 Location: michigan |
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Always good to know that the fine fine editors of this site reduce themselves to name calling. Go you!
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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You raise a good point. So when you make something that turns out to be a big hit I get to steal it from you and I get to distribute it at my discretion to people and then you lose money because I'm pirating your materials. Great idea and good luck to you. |
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