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Answerman - Why Isn't More Anime Made For Americans?


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kevinx59



Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 959
Location: In sunny California
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:52 am Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
But then there are others, myself included, who became anime fans as an extension of our general love for animation. We got stuck on anime because it does a whole slew of things which are extremely rare to nonexistent in Western animation: serialized storytelling, mature-target shows that aren't sitcoms, taking on every genre under the sun. I've often thought that if American animation featured more shows like Avatar and Batman: TAS, and fewer shows like...well, everything else, I may not have ever needed to find anime in the first place. I don't like anime series simply because they're Japanese, but because they're good animated shows, and as it stands the vast majority of my favorites tend to be those with somewhat Western sensibilities, or at least those that aren't targeted at any specific niche demographic.
That's kind of why I got into anime. I grew up watching Animaniacs, Looney Tunes and Batman:TAS (as well as the PBS cartoons). When I first saw a promo for Pokemon I thought it looked weird so I didn't bother with it. It wasn't until I caught a random episode a couple months later that I actually started watching. Same thing with Yugioh. Cardcaptors was the only series I actually watched from the start. Since then I watched anime on and off until I finally just dived into fully exploring it. I like anime for its variety and art style, but I was raised on Western film and animation, so I still watch a lot of that. Despite all of the anime I watch, my two favorite animated films are from the US and Israel. I don't really want anime to become mainstream, but at the same time I wouldn't mind so long as the series are good. I also wouldn't mind some anime aimed at a Western audience, as long as (obviously) that isn't all that is made. Hell, that'd be pretty cool. I've always thought about how cool it would be if a famous (or at least good) Western director took the helm of an anime production. A mixing of anime art and animation with some Western storytelling. Like Thundercats 2011, only I'd like to see them tackle something less fantastical.
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animefanworried



Joined: 09 Mar 2011
Posts: 126
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:13 am Reply with quote
"Why isn't more anime made for Americans?"

Don't question it, just enjoy it!
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sofort99



Joined: 08 Aug 2015
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:48 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Japanese entertainment companies, and basically any entertainment company not in the US, desperately want to make it big in the US. This is a constant thing. It's because America is the world's biggest entertainment market, America makes most of the world's most successful and iconic entertainment, and America basically drives the narrative as to what's relevant cultural material for a huge chunk of the world. Japan has tried for years, almost always unsuccessfully, to break into the American market in any number of ways, and anime has been a part of that failed invasion attempt for longer than there's been a proper anime industry in the US.

Anime has always been made with a world market in mind. Virtually every Toei Douga film from the 1960s got some sort of small American release (often uncut!), as did many early anime series from the 1960s. But making anime SPECIFICALLY FOR Americans has a much less successful history.


And yet when asked why they don't renew something that was solid in the U.S., the answer is always it's because they don't give a crap about the numbers anywhere except in Japan.

They don't need to make anime "just for America". They just need to quit... that.

Honestly, the Firefly effect does 90% of the damage here in the U.S. as to not keeping new viewers. I bet the majority of them throw their hands up in disgust and give up after only a few seasons. Personally, I just tell people to only start watching completed stuff until you get used to the idea they are going to arbitrarily drop most of what you like, no matter how good it is or how well it does here.

What a great formula for market penetration.
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Ali07



Joined: 01 Jun 2014
Posts: 3333
Location: Victoria, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:09 am Reply with quote
willag wrote:
Ali07 wrote:
Lili-Hime wrote:
Part of why I like anime over american TV is that it most times has a beginning, middle and end.

Agreed. Even though, many series I enjoy don't have an end. They end up being incomplete adaptions...and that's the side of anime I hate...

Other than old OVAs, I can't really think of many anime that don't feel like they end with some sort of note of finality.

I named 2 of them in my post, Aria of the Scarlet Ammo and Dream Eater Merry. Didn't feel like either ending had a note of finality.

A more recent example, Magical Warfare.

willag wrote:
Additionally, Yona of the Dawn obviously doesn't cover the entire story of the manga, but the anime still had a satisfying ending.

I'm sure that what you and I like to see in an ending is very different. I may be harder to please, or you get more out of some of the open endings than I do.

Yeah, Yona's ending. When the premise of the show is "go out, gather some guys, take the kingdom back", and the whole part of getting the kingdom back doesn't happen, it leaves me feeling unsatisfied.

Too often, open endings just leave me unsatisfied. It's rare that I'd ever re-watch a show that leaves itself open. And, in almost all instances that I do re-watch them, it's because the source material is made available, and I find it worth while to own the anime.

SNAFU TOO is one such example. Loved the anime series, but that ending...still, I will be buying it, as I will be able to experience the ending due to the LN license. On the other side of the coin (not being able to read the source), The World God Only Knows. But, it is alone in it's category. I own it (and the manga, though I gotta learn how to read it) and have pre-ordered the OVAs from Madman...I don't like how the 3rd season ends, cause it's open. But, I guess, that knowing how the series ended...I'm happy to have the anime...but I still want a fourth season! Laughing

I understand that it is the nature of the beast, many series are adaptions of incomplete works. But, I feel like there are less shows like Kokoro Connect, Kawai Complex and Nozaki-kun (clearly finish at points that aren't "ends", but I'm left satisfied) out there than there are series like Magical Warfare, Blue Spring Ride, Date A Live, SNAFU TOO, Strike the Blood...I could go on, but those are some that immediately come to mind. I do have a list of what I'd like to get continuations. Laughing

I know there are plenty of people out there that are happy with how some series wrap up. I just find that, for me, there is no sense of finality for many series that I've seen. And, I've not even been a consistent anime viewer for a long period of time (compared to some).

2012 is when I really started to follow anime. Within a year or so, I came across too many series that had endings that felt too open (to me). Got to the point that, if I look at checking out an older series, I'll check out comments on the final episode. And, if there is mention that the ending seems like something I'd consider too open, I just won't check it out.

I feel like that hits me hardest when romance is involved. Many harems leave me unsatisfied (sorry, I always need the MC to choose). And, then, there are series like Sakurasou and Inari Kon Kon. What I wouldn't give for a continuation of them both. And, I mean, Touka and Uka...COME ON!!! Laughing

willag wrote:
I also agree with Lili-Hime's criticism on American comics. Any worthwhile character development can easily be destroyed by bringing things back to the status quo. That's really frustrating.

That is also something I dislike. And, over time, I feel like I'm reading more stuff like Iron Fist - The Living Weapon and less Spider-Man, Captain America, Superman etc.

The "B Level" characters, that get given an ongoing series, usually end up having more satisfying "endings" when the series wraps up (be it that it gets cancelled or not).

Again, nature of the beast.

DC/Marvel live and breathe due to their IP. There are very few instances when the slate is wiped clean, and the growth of a character seems to disappear. Most of the time, a new writer may come in and concentrate on an aspect, more than others, and through that drive change. But, wholesale changes are very rare. It usually involves the wiping of a universe, in order to have a character that would be almost devoid of the growth that a previous writer instilled (here's looking at you, Secret Wars. And, previously, anything with the word "Crisis"...or Flashpoint).

I also have started collecting more creator owned comics over recent years.

Feels like many who talk US comics only talk Marvel/DC. Yes, they own the overwhelming majority of the market, but there are a lot of series out there that have well crafted beginnings, middles, and ends. You just won't find them (often) at Marvel or DC.

You'd have to look at other publishers. Image, (some) IDW, (some) Dark Horse, Devils Due, Oni Press, etc.

(I wonder if the Grumpy Cat 3 issue mini will have a good beginning, middle, and end?) Laughing

Anyway, I'm sure I'm just rambling at this point. For those that end up reading my post, I hope I didn't totally waste your time.
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:16 am Reply with quote
sofort99 wrote:
Honestly, the Firefly effect does 90% of the damage here in the U.S. as to not keeping new viewers. I bet the majority of them throw their hands up in disgust and give up after only a few seasons. Personally, I just tell people to only start watching completed stuff until you get used to the idea they are going to arbitrarily drop most of what you like, no matter how good it is or how well it does here.


"Arbitrarily" is a strange word to use to mean "will often drop a series that has terrible ratings, even if a fan or critical darling." Please name something that was dropped despite "doing well" in the ratings; it's far easier to think of things that networks stubbornly stuck with because they were fan or critical darlings despite terrible ratings (such as Arrested Development, which had plenty of advertisement as well.) Some things weren't advertised well or given a chance, but I can't think of any show that actually "did well" and was canceled.
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1006
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:23 am Reply with quote
jr0904 wrote:
Quote:
Sure, Aniplex might be able to start an American division, hire a Japanese guy who's been in the business for a decade, and make a small dent, but to do the sort of mainstream project you're suggesting, you have to have a major television broadcaster partner, spend millions of dollars in marketing, and put on a gigantic PR blitz.


Not quite answerman. while it would be true for companies like viz media and funi , for companies like aniplex & NIS America is another story.

since a majority of their series they release get the sub only treatment (excluding US like series like Guren Lagann & Kill La Kill, and for all Type-Moon series and series that have the fate/stay night logo) they wont have to worry about having to have a major TV broadcasting partner or have a big ass PR blitz. especially if its very well known within the otaku community.


Huh? You do realize that you're missing the entire point, right? What you describe above is the typical current subculture niche release that those companies already doing. It's not sufficient for having a big mainstream release, for which you would have to do all the things that Justin mentions.
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Lemonchest



Joined: 18 Mar 2015
Posts: 1771
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:57 am Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
I can't think of any show that actually "did well" and was canceled.

Pushing Daisies, maybe, although it suffered from having the writers strike wreck the production of the first season & never recovered the ratings it was enjoying when it returned. I'd imagine it wasn't the only show that got sunk in that quagmire.
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EricJ2



Joined: 01 Feb 2014
Posts: 4016
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:40 am Reply with quote
sofort99 wrote:
And yet when asked why they don't renew something that was solid in the U.S., the answer is always it's because they don't give a crap about the numbers anywhere except in Japan.

They don't need to make anime "just for America". They just need to quit... that..


Again, we're getting so far off onto the somewhat-unclear-on-the-concept side discussions of seasons or show length or what our networks did, that this is the issue:
Japan would LIKE its shows to be popular and generate a little import interest the way we were smug over how well Avatar and Frozen did in Japan, but it's not a going concern for them. (Qv. their insistence that Disney release Princess Mononoke in theaters, despite the fact that it would do so much more disastrously with US audiences.)

For one thing, they don't really know how much anime we DO watch, and feel they have to do "American imitations", the way our series occasionally do "Anime-style imitations", or that they have to create the show that will "educate us" about Japan, since Westerners are so clueless, you know.
(I don't know how the post was pulled the first time, but I'd brought up the example of China's government industry wanting to start connecting with Hollywood and co-producing big-budget movies, but their concept of a big blockbuster was to have an American teen transported into the Monkey King story to learn all about the culture. It stank, but it stank in the way someone was trying very hard to be what they thought was cool, and explaining it in nice easy words to someone else.)
What Japan thinks we don't know about their country, or that we "should", is either going to produce something "safe", border-free and set in some pointless generic fantasy or sci-fi setting, so we don't have to worry about any nasty, interfering cultural background, or at the other end, be didactic and nationalistically condescending, and tell us "everything we don't know" about them, which is a rather risky assumption to make.

And that assuming Cool Japan hadn't gotten its government-incentive hands on it yet, with even less of an idea of what makes anime popular.
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:54 am Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Please name something that was dropped despite "doing well" in the ratings;

Here's one that still hurts for me: The Crow - Stairway To Heaven. It had decent rating, and very good reviews. It was making some money, but when Universal bought the studio making it, they decided to not continue it, leaving it on a giant M-[expletive] cliffhanger. FU Universal!

Anyway, I don't watch American shows unless they already ended (except sitcoms with no over arching plot). Too many times was a show I loved canceled, and no, I don't care about their reason. I just don't trust them anymore. Even the shittiest anime finishes its promised 13 episodes.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5897
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:52 am Reply with quote
MajorZero wrote:
Oh god, time and time again people on ANN show how misinformed they are about american comics.

You can’t really blame people for that. If it is not Marvel, DC, or even Image, most people will not even know it exists. Most comic book shops don’t even carry a full selection of alternate titles or companies. You would have to buy the monthly Diamond industry magazine to see what actually is available.
MajorZero wrote:
Second, characters from DC and Marvel will be here at least as long as Disney and WB, that alone makes it impossible to tell one big story, that's why editors change creative teams from time to time and that's why nobody even remotely familiar with big two expects characters to be the same.

That is not entirely true. Retconning or rebooting is a fairly recent event (at least for Marvel titles) if you go back to the 1960’s when most of the titles first came out. Creative teams also had fairly long lives when compared to now. I view the short lives of creative teams and artists as a negative. You lose the continuity of the characters and you lose fans when artists or creative teams change out so often.
It is a myth that you can’t tell long big stories, when they have been doing it for decades already.
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ParaChomp



Joined: 10 Dec 2010
Posts: 1018
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:36 pm Reply with quote
Most importantly, Japan just doesn't get us. At all. There are things American culture should learn from Japanese culture and things Japanese culture should learn from American culture but neither of us are eager or willing to do so.
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Ojamajo LimePie



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 769
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:52 pm Reply with quote
REDOG wrote:
So we have the highly experimental. What i had never seen is an anime which treats the family dynamic and social life of children the way certain canadian or american or british cartoons treat the subject. It would be really interesting experiments to see an anime that tries to be "jacob two two" or "peanuts" or even "arthur". I mean, to leave all the over the top plots and elements and express the themes and plots in a more realistic and subdued less wacky way.


Sazae-san is what you want.
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13583
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:54 pm Reply with quote
Another yet possibly overlooked explanation has to do with intellectual property. That is, Japan might want to make an anime about an IP character. However, because of trademark and/or copyright, they can't or they might have to pay high royalty fees that could exceed that possible show's estimated budget.
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MajorZero



Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 359
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 2:15 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:

You can’t really blame people for that. If it is not Marvel, DC, or even Image, most people will not even know it exists.

We're not living in a stone age, if someone interested in something they can find all the info they need in the web. I live in Russia for crying out loud, yet I somehow know that Valiant, Avatar and other publishers exist.
TarsTarkas wrote:
Creative teams also had fairly long lives when compared to now. I view the short lives of creative teams and artists as a negative. You lose the continuity of the characters and you lose fans when artists or creative teams change out so often.

Depends on what you consider to be often. Scott Snyder works on Batman for about 4 years now, same with Geoff Johns and Justice League and I think Mark Waid's run of Daredevil is even longer. Everything benefits from golden mean, I want creative teams to tell stories they want yet I don't want them to run out of ideas.
TarsTarkas wrote:
It is a myth that you can’t tell long big stories, when they have been doing it for decades already.

Is it though? Even long-running shounen series (and they aren't nearly as long-running as comics' from big two) divided on arcs with something resembling overarching plot playing in the background. Now, imagine it happening for 70 years with different writers and artists?
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REDOG



Joined: 01 Apr 2004
Posts: 37
PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:23 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Sazae-san is what you want.


I knew somebody would come up with that. Surprised No, there are many shows that come close, sazae san, doreamon, kodocha, azuki chan, this frog has guts and many of their ilk, espicially from sazae san era. But either they are too wacky or too japanese. Therefore i said what i said.
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