Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Isn't More Anime Made For Americans?
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Whis-pur
Posts: 131 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Wait, so is it The Big O or just The Big O Season 2?
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Gasero
 Posts: 939 Location: USA |
|
|||||||||||
|
I don't want anime to be mainstream. Anime has always been special because of how niche many of the series are and how fantastical the worlds were.
Unfortunately, so many anime seem like the same these days that not many are special. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
Top Gun
 Posts: 4650 |
|
|||||||||||
The original 13 episodes were an all-Japanese production, but they proved so popular in the US that Cartoon Network co-produced the second season. It's why [adult swim] has perpetual broadcast rights for season 2, whereas the first season's broadcast license has expired. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
John Thacker
Posts: 1006 |
|
|||||||||||
It is a myth, in that many people in the fandom believe it about the niche shows, and believe that Japan is so different in its treatment of animation. As my parenthetical said, we agree about the shows about which it's true-- which aren't that different than the popular animation (both aimed at kids and adults) in the USA.
Sure, but I'm sure you agree that that's not any different than Pixar movies or Disney movies. All of those, like Conan, are rated for general or family audiences, seen as "something you can take your kid to" but also do quite well among adults. (There's a bit of a negative correlation between the Pixar movies rated well by adults and critics, and the ones kids like.) Then there's things like the South Park or Simpsons movies.
Certainly agree with this as well. Even among animation, something like Archer faces less censorship than late night Japanese shows (something that Trigger aluded to in their interview on this site.) There's a bigger difference with, say, sports anime existing rather than sports movies and shows only being live action, but (perhaps until very recently) sports anime has never been a big seller in the US (though with a devoted fandom). |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Nyron
Posts: 161 |
|
|||||||||||
|
Chiming in to say that Oban Star Racers, the show used for the banner for this article, is amazing and everyone should watch it. It's a work of art.
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
CandisWhite
Posts: 282 |
|
|||||||||||
|
1. I feel that it's more trying to properly reach a market than it is creating a market.
There is a LOT of anime that is the most western thing that ever westerned: Aside from the obviously anime style of animation, you would have to squint to find anything different from western comics and cartoons in many of Tatsunoko's shows; A good chunk of shojo, such as Candy Candy, was a huge hit in non-Asian markets; There's the 'Grimm's Fairy Tale Classics' by Nippon Animation; Toei's 'Swan Lake' is beat for beat a classic Disney movie ( Oh, and props to Discotek for releasing 'The Little Mermaid). These exist not because Japanese creators had a western audience specifically in mind but because western things are so foreign, and therefore neat, to Japanese people: It's a reversal of position for the way that we see definitively Japanese shows as foreign and neat. 2. The sad part to reaching the majority of the market that consumes American media, as stated by others, is that it's TOUGH. There is SO much stuff and most of the major players already have a foothold. My Little Pony's semi-popular little sister 'Jem' is having a comparatively rough time trying to make a decent comeback, and that's an established property from a company that's a household name. ( This collector doll-buying, comic collecting, Jem fan has watched it happen.) I do see a lot of anime that, given the chance, could be very successful in English North America but that will, for the foreseeable future, at best, be off on the sidelines with the English shows that just haven't quite made it on the main stage. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
maximilianjenus
Posts: 2880 |
|
|||||||||||
|
this topic is weird because murica; then we talk about other countries and stuff like dragon ball exists, stuff like saint seiya exists, stuff like captain tsuabsa exist which are more popular than stuff like the simpsons (or actualyl the simpsons are the only thing that might rival them in popularity)
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
jr240483
 Posts: 4390 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
|
|||||||||||
which is the reason why most of them haven't been licensed or dubbed except for the iron man and X-men series. hell its probably the reason why Ultimo haven't been given an anime series cause of the probability that it will bomb very badly, not to mention that heroman haven't been licensed in the US as of yet. so its as answerman says, its a classic double edged sword when taking a gamble like this. just ask CN that did Big O II &IGPX which were very good series and was popular within the otaku community, but not popular enough to warrant its expenses
Not quite answerman. while it would be true for companies like viz media and funi , for companies like aniplex & NIS America is another story. since a majority of their series they release get the sub only treatment (excluding US like series like Guren Lagann & Kill La Kill, and for all Type-Moon series and series that have the fate/stay night logo) they wont have to worry about having to have a major TV broadcasting partner or have a big ass PR blitz. especially if its very well known within the otaku community. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
|
|||||||||||
Other than old OVAs, I can't really think of many anime that don't feel like they end with some sort of note of finality. Even series adaptations that cover only part of the original material at least end on the conclusion of an arc. They may deviate a bit and create an original ending or have a sort of open-ended "the war isn't over and there's more adventure to be had, but this battle was won," but at least it feels like a good stopping point. Some fans didn't like the anime-original arcs at the end of the 1st season of Kamisama Kiss and Noragami, but I liked them. Additionally, Yona of the Dawn obviously doesn't cover the entire story of the manga, but the anime still had a satisfying ending. American prime time tv shows that have serial storytelling can be a frustrating experience. You'll get different writers for each episode with different strengths and weaknesses and levels of skill; starting a series is a risk, because at any point a show can be prematurely cancelled if the viewership doesn't meet what is considered acceptable; but having a strong success can also be a killer since the story can fall apart by dragging the series on. The most recent example I can think of for point 3 is Once Upon a Time. It's not a paragon of storytelling, but I still really enjoyed the 1st season. You could tell that the 1st season was planned out: the story had a natural progression, the episodes tied in together well, characters had interesting storylines and each character felt like an important contribution, and each episode had a nice balance of a self-contained story that focused on a different character but also added to the overarching storyline. Each continuing season kept getting worse with storylines that feel like they're flying by the seat of their pants, arcs and new characters dependent upon what's hot/popular at the time, having most characters being one-offs due to a constantly growing large cast, forcing episode formats where such formats were to the series detriment, introducing new conflicts that f***s with previous character development, changing characters' backstories, and needlessly complicating an incomprehensible timeline. Having to balance keeping the story open-ended on the chance that another season gets renewed and yet also being able to wrap it up in case there isn't a new season takes skill. I prefer stories that are planned out, such that there's a clearly defined beginning, middle, and end. Dragging things out screws with plot, continuity, and - what is often the worst offense - character development. I also agree with Lili-Hime's criticism on American comics. Any worthwhile character development can easily be destroyed by bringing things back to the status quo. That's really frustrating. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
Razor/Edge
Posts: 607 |
|
|||||||||||
+1 for you, good sir. First anime I ever watched, before I even know what "anime" was. A good starter series for a younger audience. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
MajorZero
Posts: 359 |
|
|||||||||||
It's more niche now than ever before. The problem is that 15-10 years ago there were plenty of stuff which appealed to mainstream crowd, nowadays you can't even have spokon without fujoshi bait or musical show without idols. Maybe it's time to become more mainstream yet again.
Oh god, time and time again people on ANN show how misinformed they are about american comics. First of all, liking everything to DC and Marvel is a mistake, there are much more creator owned comic books which have beginning, middle and the end, yes even superhero genre has comics like that. Second, characters from DC and Marvel will be here at least as long as Disney and WB, that alone makes it impossible to tell one big story, that's why editors change creative teams from time to time and that's why nobody even remotely familiar with big two expects characters to be the same. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
SilverTalon01
Posts: 2404 |
|
|||||||||||
I think you are just using a vastly different definition of finality than him or me because I can effortlessly come up with quite a few. You're saying that if the show ends with the resolution of some minor problem that constitutes "some sort of note of finality," but does it really? You said in your post you're counting 'and the story continues' endings in there. How does 'well we accomplished some minor thing but 99% of the problems built up continue to exist and need to be solved' have any finality? To me that says 'we aren't done yet guys' and not 'things are mostly ok so lets stop here.' Sounds more to me like you are just talking about whether it ends with a cliffhanger or not, and that isn't really the same thing. I'm not saying being an incomplete adaption means you can't end with some sort of finality. Sword Art Online is only about half adapted, but the end of each season resolved all the active major plot lines. Sure, you know the story goes on, but the 'everything is peachy for the time being' has some finality. However, far more common, especially with LN adaptions, the first season doesn't do much more than set up the major plot lines and ends with the defeat of some not so important guy. Theres no finality in that because all the important stuff continues on. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
maoyen
 Posts: 170 |
|
|||||||||||
What happened with Heroman, exactly? I mean the show was made by Stan Lee (he even makes appearances in the show), but it never came out in the west. I've always found that very odd, considering that Bones gave it a ton of PR before it came out. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
|
|||||||||||
|
Well, there's Honda Motors as a successful attempt, which was arguably accidental, as they tried to sell their slow but highly maneuverable motorcycles in the United States with little success until the Americans figured those bikes would be good for recreational purposes.
The best bets among anime that currently exists, I'd say, are offbeat short web-based comedies, ones that don't look a thing like anime and have general purpose humor that doesn't need any cultural knowledge. Usavich is the first one that comes to mind for me, though for some reason, I'm drawing a blank though I know there are many others. Something to also keep in mind is that Nintendo is usually able to bring its games over to western countries without having to change much of anything as they are so free of anything Japanese. The Super Mario games didn't have anything explicitly Japanese that couldn't be explained away until Super Paper Mario's Sammer Kingdom, for instance.
This is the problem I felt was present as I watched Panty & Stocking with Garterbelt. They were trying to imitate something without really understanding it, and with baggage in the form of expectations for an anime series. As a fan of western animation, Panty & Stocking was pretty much an anime with a western animation cloak over itself and trying to pass itself off as western animation. From the choppy framerate to the clumsy humor (even in the Funimation dub) to them reading the title carda aloud to the serial nature to the onscreen written sound effects to them being crass and vulgar for the sake of being crass and vulgar, it pretty much failed for me in the same way that Powerpuff Girls Demashita Z failed for me. I imagine how I felt about Panty & Stocking is probably what a more typical anime fan probably felt about Kappa Mikey or Teen Titans (the first one). I think the big difference between Panty & Stocking and Space Dandy or One Piece is that Hiroyuki Imaishi, as much as I admire the guy, hasn't absorbed western culture the way Shinichiro Watanabe or Eiichiro Oda have. Even if they have to consume the stuff through subtitles or somesuch, you can pick up patterns after some time.
To be fair, if an anime is sufficiently popular, it'll happen to that too. Naruto is one ongoing case. Whether it's Japan, the United States, or any other country, money talks. As for the latter, it's either due to low ratings (Thundercats 2011[i], [i]The Pirates of Dark Water), network sabotage (Invader Zim, [i]Megas XLR), or it hitting the 65-episode limit that some shows are contractually bound by (Darkwing Duck, Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force GO!). Incidentally, Super Robot Monkey Team Hyper Force GO! seems to be made mostly by Japanese-Americans. So there's at least one group of Japanese people who managed to be a modest hit with westerners, at least big enough to run up against that 65-episdoe cap.
That's something that I had in mind too, though it wasn't like that until it turned out to be way more popular in the west than in Japan. With that case, I think they made the right decision: To keep doing what they had been doing before, because what they did before clearly worked with western audiences but not Japanese audiences.
I'll give you my answer, at least: Because I am an animation fan. I love watching animated works because they can create stories that would be difficult to make or look strange if done in live action, and I like seeing other people's drawing styles, especially when come to life. Anime and western animation both make extensive use of the concept of animation doing what live action cannot, but in different ways. And I like them both.
An anime could potentially cater to western sensibilities well IF all of the people in charge are sufficiently well-versed in those western sensibilities and prefer western stories over Japanese ones. These have already been done (the aformentioned Space Dandy and One Piece). The next hurdle, which is never accomplished, is acceptance by western viewers. Anime is just too bound by the animation age ghetto for older western audiences to take seriously, and younger western audiences get into anime for the novelty. That, and the American market is very crowded and full of people with a lot more experience selling to Americans.
Also Karakuri Douji Ultimo, which, while licensed in America, never really caught on. |
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
|
XtremeAnimeDan
Posts: 127 Location: Texas |
|
|||||||||||
|
Zoids Fuzors and D.I.C.E. (Bandai) were animes made and aimed at the US audience before they went back to Japan. Can anyone say either of them were really successful? The only successful series I can think of being aimed at an American audience that was made as an anime for American audiences is Transformers (Transformers: Armada, Transformers: Energon, & Transformers: Cyberton).
|
||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||
and Big O´s "more American" second season is better that the first yet it is was left unfinished too. Sigh.
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group