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NEWS: ADV Head Says UK Issues May Be Due to Illegal Releases


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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 661
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:11 pm Reply with quote
posterior_praiser wrote:
You don't have to know japanese to know if you prefer one type of translation style to another. Some people like to have notes to explain Japanese cultural references and other such things. Many companies don't make such notes, and for some series they are quite necessary. Some people also like to have subs that keep more terms in japanese, instead of translating them, such as 'bankai' or 'shinigami' and ect. Not to say I do, but some people perfer it. Doesn't make it more accurate, but the style is more attractive to some.


In that case, we should do the same with subbed stuff from other cultures like Korean or Chinese, regardless if you like to butcher the English language with that kind of attitude, cuate Rolling Eyes

[EDIT: Fixed quote attribution. ~Zalis]
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akumaotaku



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:13 pm Reply with quote
Paploo wrote:
akumaotaku wrote:
Richard J. wrote:


Plus, it's not like ADV or any company has the money to experiment with right now. People aren't buying. They're downloading.


So, make a online store where you can buy the shows, where you don't have a DRM with them in DVD Quality and that will solve all your problems


No, then people'll just stop ripping DVD's, and distribute those online instead, and tell people not to bother paying for them. I don't think we'll see something like that until bootlegs can be more easily monitored/punished.


So what do you want? Them to sue to the people which will cause more backlash and more important less sales, look at RIAA after Napster and now. RIAA Sues more, more people don't want to buy from RIAA.
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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:31 pm Reply with quote
akumaotaku wrote:
Dargonxtc wrote:
akumaotaku wrote:
Exactly the main issue for example look at Trent Reznor, and what he did with the new album he released, gave online a free 9 track EP (Ghosts 1) and sell the rest with that (Ghosts 2-4) at a reasonable price online. He already made 750,000+$ In 1 day, just through 2500 Limited edition versions plus all the 5 dollar complete online download versions (DRM free). You honestly think RIAA would let him do that, No. ADV and the others realize the marketplace changed and you can't just depend only with sales based on DVDs or stick DRM through your digital versions if you sell them.
Most people quote Radiohead as a success too, since the dollar(or pound) amount we hear sounds to be large. But... is only 38% of your customers actually paying something(which means anything besides zero) actually a success?

But I do agree with you that ADV realizes the market has changed.
Sure but you also got to realize look at how much people who really never heard of Radiohead before the Free CD and even then there really was no press, unlike what reznor did and released the free version on BitTorrent, but... it was a authentic Limited edition unlike the so called "Limited Edition" Anime Companies do with most anime's (Ex: I was able to buy the First Volume of Love Hina with box after it been out for 1-2 years.

First, I agree with you about anime limited editions, although there are exceptions, most aren't exactly limited.

But I think Radiohead getting throngs of new fans for there pay what you want album, sounds a little suppositional at best. When I first read what you wrote, the first thing that popped into my head was, "who hasn't heard of Radiohead?".

I am not sure how you are you are relating the selling out of the NIN limited edition, to the fact that he sold his album for free. I mean it is a bonafide piece of genuine rock memorabilia, filled with a ton of stuff, by an insanely popular band signed by the man himself that any die hard would want. You also have to consider the pool from which this comes from when compared with anime. With millions of fans, many of which have a history of already spending money for products and services(shows), 2500 are going to sell out very quickly, it's almost guaranteed. Cross that with anime fans, many of which have no history of spending money, and you get things like the Samurai 7 limited editions or the more recent Patlabor movie limited editions. All of which had 10,000 print runs and can still be found. Heck it took three years to sell out the Saber Marionette J Ultimate Collection (LE 5000 prints) which was hand signed as well.
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BluMeino



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:32 pm Reply with quote
You don't really buy from the RIAA, you still pay the record companies, but the RIAA is more like the mafia offering "protection" from people who try to bootleg, download, steal, etc. Plenty of artists said they don't care if people steal their music as they generally care more for the music than they do for the money, i.e. RHCP. But all the recording companies are in bed with RIAA, inseparable. Same thing with movies and the MPAA.

Do we have any protection agencies that anime would fall under?
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indrik



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Location: yonder
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:38 pm Reply with quote
I think the Radiohead/NIN experiments are very interesting. I think the bottom line is really the bottom line: did they make more money selling it themselves that way than they would have going through a label? It doesn't really matter how many people paid for it, I don't think, it matters whether it's a better profit model than the label system. I also wonder whether it would work with bands who were less involved in the nuts and bolts of making a record, or simply don't have the capital to pay all the technicians who do recording work and the like. Or for an anime company who would have a significant capital outlay in terms of subbing or dubbing or whatever with no guaranteed return, as opposed to a couple of fairly wealthy, successful groups who can front their own seed money. And the issue of a much smaller fanbase is very legitimate as well, but I wonder if that would be offset by the lower production costs of electronic-only distribution.

That said, I still like my dvds. I wouldn't be as interested in a download-only model. I'd be the idiot buying the limited edition dvd because it's the only way to get a physical copy.
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Ryokosha



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Location: North Eastern United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:41 pm Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
Ryokosha wrote:
If things are getting worse then no matter what happens, no matter if you have to have the passengers on a bucket brigade you need to make it look like the ship is on an even keel (to mangle a few idioms) because delays will hurt you no matter their reason if the industry is already a bit hurt, if nothing else it will hurt trust in a company representing the industry...
The problem is, that's what the industry has been doing for several years now. They've been pretending everything was fine, now they are finding it impossible to maintain that illusion.
Granted and no illusion can be maintained forever, nevertheless this is the worst time for it to fail, and regardless of who is at fault, their delays and lack of information about them are worse, they are saying nothing when even incomplete information would be better... if the illusion is already gone then they lose nothing with at least partial disclosure of what in the world is going on... so far they say nothing, and Newtype USA gets changed "for the fans", they say nothing and delays happen almost at the same time, they say a little and they are having problems in the UK... perhaps these are all for different completely unrelated reasons or perhaps they are all related... regardless if the straights are truly this dire that the illusion is gone and cannot be maintained, then it is time for parital disclosure so we fans can at least know what is going on...
Quote:
All complaining about the legal product from people who don't buy it at all is just ridiculous. Granted, I live in the US and thus have zero experience with the UK industry, but when you aren't buying any of that product and openly proclaim that you prefer fansubs, why in the heck would you expect a company to listen to you? You aren't a customer.
I agree fully with this, which is why I think even if you watch fansubs buy the product too... It is too much to ask people to stop watching I think and go cold turkey, but it isn't too much to ask them to spend even 30 dollars twice a month to purchase just one volume of one series and in that way support the industry even a bit.

I think if that could happen even from a fraction of those only watching fansubs then complaining about moe destroying the industry a lot more money would flow to the industry; and yes I know that is a hopeless dream...
Quote:
Plus, it's not like ADV or any company has the money to experiment with right now. People aren't buying. They're downloading. And then complaining about the shows being moe crap on a fairly regular basis.
That much I cannot deny, the economy is not great for anyone at the moment... people do not have money to buy, which is why companies have to find a way to not only cut costs while making a profit but not follow what I call the "Camden Principle" see that fewer are buying and then either not lower prices or find excuses for raising prices.

Costs have not gone down which is another problem, if companies would be willing to cut costs to the point they are making the smallest profit possible but still a profit, they might see a drastic increase in sales... I have yet to see evidence that is what is going on in any industry.
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sheentaku



Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 12
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:44 pm Reply with quote
Well for once i dont think fansubs are to blame.

ITs the fact that anime is hadly known in the uk and very hard to get a hold of for example in a average HMV We have 1 shelf dedicated to anime and it is mainly naruto..
For me to get my anime i have to travel to a forbidden planet or the giant HMV in central london.
Another thing is unless your a major fan of anime and watching fansubs you dont know whats out, Only one channel shows anime on channel 199 anime network heres the kicker though it only shows anime past 9 o clock and hardly anyone actully has this channel.

We also get anime way later than the us as we just only got FLCL and Beserk we get ripped off on prices £20 for a single anime DVD (39.71400 U.S. dollars).
Also not all of us can use online retailers as not everyone has credit card.

Yes Fansubs are a big cause in sell drops but really the uk is such a small market anyway are population is tiny so i dont know why anime companys even bother with us in the first place.
Are biggest convention only gets about 2000-4000 people a year (london comic expo) and it isnt even a true anime convention.
So say a thousend are true anime fans like us they wont all have the same taste in anime and most attendee;s are young teens with hardly any income they usally only get a dvd once in a while.

Yes there are anime fans like me who spend £500 ( 992.85 U.S. dollars) a month on anime and anime related products) But i usally import them from america as ... why should i wait years too get my fav anime when it has already been dubbed in america.

I've Tried supporting the uk anime industry but we hardly get anything and i dont really want Generic shounen anime 54636 that we tend to get here.

Im half french and the anime market in france is booming fansubs arnt realyl a problem there and DVDs are usally licsend quickly and out there just as fast maybe we should learn from the french.
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BluMeino



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:48 pm Reply with quote
Actually yes, it is too much to ask a lot of us to spend $60 on anime per month. A lot of fans are college students, thus poor, studying, and we spend all of our money on more important things like food, gas, rent, and alcohol. No, getting a job does not increase more cash flow to fund anime, it's so we can make back all the money we wasted on buying un-returnable books. Maybe in a few years if I have a steady solid job, unlikely looking at the current economic trend, I'll buy tons more anime. I spend more like $60 or less a year though, which I think is plenty.
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Ryokosha



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Location: North Eastern United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:54 pm Reply with quote
BluMeino wrote:
Actually yes, it is too much to ask a lot of us to spend $60 on anime per month. A lot of fans are college students, thus poor, studying, and we spend all of our money on more important things like food, gas, rent, and alcohol. No, getting a job does not increase more cash flow to fund anime, it's so we can make back all the money we wasted on buying un-returnable books. Maybe in a few years if I have a steady solid job, unlikely looking at the current economic trend, I'll buy tons more anime. I spend more like $60 or less a year though, which I think is plenty.
I said 30 per month 60 over two months, and if you are going to college you aren't poor these days. You will forever be in debt from a bank or other loan if you took one out, but you are not poor. Sadly the poor cannot truly afford education at the moment at most major colleges and universities in the US without scholarships.

You mentioned working and said it does not increase cash flow, odd thing is it seemed to increase it for spending at bars if I remember my college days correctly even with the aforementioned expenses you cited... so spend 30 less somewhere else, get cheaper books online, don't go out to eat as much, by dollar noodles, buy used this and thats there are ways (I've done it so know) to buy all you are saying and still have 30 left for one volume of one anime series each month.

The thing is, there is always money to spend on what you want to spend it on, never forget that and please don't use other expenses as an excuse for saying why it cannot be done, because if someone wants to do something, they will always find a way.
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BluMeino



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Sorry, as economical as a lot of those things are to do, to do it for the sake of 11 animation distributed by dub adders isn't worth it.

Maybe I just don't want to spend money on anime..hmm.. I'll have to go ponder that.
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AstroNerdBoy



Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 413
Location: Denver, CO
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:04 pm Reply with quote
Attacking the fans aren't going to make them come to you to buy your product. Compare and contrast how FUNimation looks at the illegal download issue vs. ADV. FUNimation say, "it's a problem and we are going to try to solve it by giving the fans what they want." ADV say, "You fans are the cause of our problems and because of that, our hands are tied."

FUNimation doesn't attack the fanbase and ADV does. Guess which company isn't having financial issues?
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One-Winged-Angel



Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:05 pm Reply with quote
I think fansubs can do some good if they're used for previewing. For example, when I watch a fansub I don't watch past the 5th episode that way I can get a feel for the series and decide if I want to buy it or not. Also, when I like a series it just gets me more hyped to wait for it to get licensed and released so I can buy it.

Maybe fansubbers should not sub past a few episodes, that way they can encourage previewing habits?
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Ryokosha



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 107
Location: North Eastern United States
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:17 pm Reply with quote
BluMeino wrote:
Sorry, as economical as a lot of those things are to do, to do it for the sake of 11 animation distributed by dub adders isn't worth it.

Maybe I just don't want to spend money on anime..hmm.. I'll have to go ponder that.
11 animation? So it isn't worth it to support an industry you enjoy but obviously don't enjoy enough to support financially? Fascinating...

AstroNerdBoy wrote:
Attacking the fans aren't going to make them come to you to buy your product. Compare and contrast how FUNimation looks at the illegal download issue vs. ADV. FUNimation say, "it's a problem and we are going to try to solve it by giving the fans what they want." ADV say, "You fans are the cause of our problems and because of that, our hands are tied."

FUNimation doesn't attack the fanbase and ADV does. Guess which company isn't having financial issues?
I think ADV phrases it very poor but is not entirelly incorrect, that said I do think FUNi's method is a lot more effective at least at present, and their dubs are considered amongst the best of the best by many people even some friends of mine that prefer fandubs/subs...

If companies are smart they would track which fansubs are most popular and try to find out why, perhaps in so doing and then trying to get the licenses for that anime will make a more successful marketing idea. True the fans who have seen it might not buy it, but if it was massively popular amongst those that watch fansubs it might become that popular amongst people that never heard of the title before it went on sale R1 release...

I don't think it is wise to tell fan subbers to stop because even if group a does somewhere there will be a group b that continues on... you can't stop it so I say use it to the advantage of making it market research.
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BluMeino



Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 65
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:25 pm Reply with quote
One-Winged-Angel wrote:
I think fansubs can do some good if they're used for previewing. For example, when I watch a fansub I don't watch past the 5th episode that way I can get a feel for the series and decide if I want to buy it or not. Also, when I like a series it just gets me more hyped to wait for it to get licensed and released so I can buy it.

Maybe fansubbers should not sub past a few episodes, that way they can encourage previewing habits?


Not going to happen. They'll be sent hate mail if they ever did that, and even if they did, some speedsubber or someone anonymous would come in and finish it.
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tlatlatla



Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:34 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Maidenoftheredhand"]
Quote:

It's not like there is a difference between the US release and the UK release (besides region codes) so why wait?



Wrong. UK releases have to be rated by the BBFC before they can be released for sale. From what I've read, the rating process requires a "finished good." So even if the US and UK versions were authored at the same time, the UK release would not be able to be released to manufacturing until the BBFC had approved. And if they required any changes, that would reset the clock yet again.
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