Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: My Dress-Up Darling
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JR-1
Posts: 70 Location: Southeast Asia |
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As a "fellow Asian" It's honestly kinda uncomfortable to me that I see a lot of "don't apply western standards to Japanese culture" coming out of the woodwork. I don't necessarily disagree with that but there often is a kind of double standard going on with how black cosplayers are often harassed or receive snide comments, not a small amount of which from asians.
Even if putting aside the history of colorism and racism worldwide if we want to take it the best faith as possible you could say the difference of cosplay culture between Asia (accuracy) and the West (artistic expression) is an interesting way to view this. You could say then that black cosplayers often aren't appreciated is kind of enforcing Japanese standards(cosplay needs to be accurate) to western (sub)culture because at this point they are rather separate cultures. So I don't think it's completely unfair for people to still be uncomfortable about skin color issues in cosplay, when people who say to respect each other cultures only really do what they say to one side. |
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NeverConvex
 Subscriber Posts: 2371 |
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As one of the people insistent that it is not, in this case, a problem: I agreed that the RoK issue was a problem, and have repeatedly argued that some of the uses of fanservice (which I guess falls under "a current issue at all") in MDUD are problematic. Some of the people replying may be doing so entirely in bad faith, but treating everyone who disagrees with you as if they're just obviously irredeemable, entirely unwilling to have a productive conversation, and only worthy of snide condescension, isn't any better, and actively dissuades people from trying to engage.
Mm, I still think your leap to 'What Marin did is racist' is pretty tenuous (particularly given that she's celebrating the character in question; the only thing I think could really be pulled out of it as negative is the animal-other'ing in the specific character chosen), but I can see where you're coming from at least. I would be curious to know if this is even a significant minority issue in Japanese cosplay circles -- for example, do native Japanese (i.e., folks who are fully Japanese in a cultural sense) but ethnically half-Japanese folks of various persuasions object typically object to this in Japanese cosplay? Do they perceive this as a potentially offensive choice? |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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Hmmm I'm not sure if using make-up in a self-tanner way to a skin darkness that you could achieve via natural tanning in order to cosplay a beloved character is anything close to "blackface" ...
Blackface was a rude caricature making fun of people of color and using shoe polish (or makeup) to achieve a totally obviously unrealistic black color. Not to mention that there isn't a negative culture history of blackface in Japan. If anything, anime characters often appear "white washed" you know? I honestly thought Marin was going to say that she had gotten a spray tan. |
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zekro94
Posts: 85 |
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I feel like people nowadays look too much into some things, she just used make up to get a tan, she didn't use something to darken her skin to a degree that is like blackface. She didn't insinuate anything, she just wanted to accurately cosplay a character, that's all. Blackface was and is wrong, however this is not blackface, it is more akin to gyaru culture if anything(were they blackfacing? Nope)
It baffles me how someone sees a character getting tanned and immediately think of cultural apropiation (which is bull**** imho) or racism or blackface. Returning to the important thing: the latest episode was cute in the way gojo gets flustered thinking of the rammification of marin cosplaying someone with such an attire, marin teasing him a little was the icing on the cake |
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sirdano1
Posts: 295 |
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Isn't it funny how colonialism and imperialism is suddenly okay when it comes to forcing western morals on other cultures? |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 521 Location: Poland |
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Sometimes it's not even Western, it's just USA, which is quite annoying to me, because I often see people saying "the West" not realizing that some issues are very much American in nature. For example, I won't pretend there's no racism in Poland, but here no one would thought getting tanned to look more like some anime character from Japan is in any way connected to American exploitation of black people. |
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1398 |
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That's not what's happening. Mr. AJCosplay pointed out that this episode touched on a subject that is problematic for them, and for many viewers in their circle. [Me, I'm not going to recommend this series to some people because of the bathroom scene introducing Sajuna to Gojo.] "this episode displayed a very uncomfortable and controversial practice in certain cosplay circles", "something that personally does not sit well with me at all, and I can go on for hours about why I find it very uncomfortable" "the potential discomfort such a practice may cause, and actually does make me hesitant to recommend the show to more people" "people are just gonna be uncomfortable and upset about certain things based on their own personal experiences" There's no "forcing attitudes on another culture" here, merely recognition of the reviewer's own attitude --- one they say is widespread in their circle. There's "this thing bugs me and makes me hesitate to recommend it to others I know will be bothered by it". |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 2969 Location: Email for assistance only |
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There is. A poster before you offered some links, but the practice of Blackface has been imported and used in Japan as well as other racist caricatures. Recent examples: http://4NN.cx/.160429 http://4NN.cx/.164782 Voice actor Suburu Kimura has also appeared in Blackface, although I believe it got enough negative attention that the ad was pulled. |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2371 |
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The pieces ATastySub posted above also both go out of their way to observe that the legacy of Japanese blackface is distinctly less venomous than the American variant was, though, and is much less powerfully ingrained in Japanese culture (though, in fairness, some of this is probably just because of Japan's extreme ethnic homogeneity making issues less noticeable even if severity is held constant; also, trusting those particular sources, which just seem to be based on two peoples' experiences, for the most part, as I don't have anything better to go on). Even so, Japan's seemingly less malicious version of blackface is a racist caricature, of course, and not OK. But, if it is a much less prominent/damaging phenomenon, and with much weaker ties to the legacy of slavery, then I think it still would seem reasonable not to be as sensitive in a Japanese context to things that aren't blackface, like MDUD's cosplay tanned-skin-toning -- i.e., in an American context, its legacy is venomous enough that I understand letting it pollute cultural references to even distantly related activities, but in a Japanese one, it still seems it may be reasonable to think of it as a standalone thing, and not condemn an activity based on similarity to it. Does give me somewhat more pause than I felt before, though. It's also interesting to be reminded of it, and to learn a bit more about it---I've definitely seen depictions of Japanese actors dressed in blackface (and I think whiteface and other racial caricatures) before, but had completely forgotten about it, and never tried to research why they'd done so. Would really like to know what the Japanese cosplay community (especially the not-full-ethnic-Japanese subset of it) thinks of this; wonder if we have anyone from it that posts on ANN. |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2969 Location: Email for assistance only |
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...I don't think it's reasonable to ask Black people to be less offended by blackface because it's done out of wilful ignorance instead of maliciousness.
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 521 Location: Poland |
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There seemed to be several Black or dark-skinned people in this thread saying they don't consider this an example of blackface. |
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Takkun4343
 Posts: 1529 Location: Englewood, Ohio |
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I think she's referring to general practice as opposed to this specific instance. |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 521 Location: Poland |
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OK, I think you're right, my bad then. Still, I think the point is that certain insensitive or racist practices are treated as differently harmful depending on common history - for reverse example, if Ranking of Kings was western show instead of Japanese few people would see the colonialist interpretation, because the description of the traitorous people was similar to far-right Japanese description of occupation of Korea, which is still painful issue for both countries. I'm sure people can be racist against Koreans outside of Japan, but if Western artist used Korean-looking huts in their series people wouldn't be that angry/disappointed. So, I think how bloody the history is makes still important difference. |
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NeverConvex
Subscriber Posts: 2371 |
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That's not what I was trying to express. It may be reasonable to be equally angry when a Japanese person dons blackface non-maliciously as when a KKK clansman does it; I don't know. But blackface donned as a small reflection of a broader systematic, malicious pattern of oppression is hard to separate from other activities, and naturally inclines me to look suspiciously at anything even somewhat similar to it. It inspires a train of thought like: "Why would you..? You know how that is going to look -- why would you do that, if you weren't specifically trying to invite the comparison?" Meanwhile, blackface donned out of some kind of less common and well-meaning but ultimately insulting caricature (in a society where this is the primary way it occurs), doesn't make me then look at a gyaru anime girl tanning her skin to do cosplay and think, "Woah -- did she consider the broader systematic oppression she's in a small way abetting, or doing something kind of superficially similar to?" It (the Japanese blackface; not the tanning) seems, instead, still gross, but somewhat more disconnected and isolated, and it feels less reasonable to view the blackface-tanning activities as part of a broader, linked prejudicial pattern. I've struggled to word this effectively, but hopefully this is clearer, even if you still disagree. Also -- just, uh, as an aside, I don't think it's fair to say that I'm asking "Black people" to control their level offense about anything. Judging by the thread, it's a pretty mixed group of people on both sides of this dispute, and I've taken issue with the substance of the arguments accusing the MDUD scene of being racist, not with the color of anyone's skin. (EDIT: Maybe I'm misunderstanding you and am being too touchy about this last point, though.) |
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ANN_Lynzee
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 2969 Location: Email for assistance only |
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I was specifically thinking of the reviewer and his group of cosplay friends/associates, since that what was quoted in an earlier post.
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