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NEWS: ADV Head Says UK Issues May Be Due to Illegal Releases

The ball is in the industry's court to either adapt and find a business model that negates this in some way (e.g. speed, speed, speed, speed!) or resign themselves to lower revenues for the rest of the industry's existence.

I await their response.

-Tofu

I enjoy video games greatly. When one isn't released in the US, I have to actually purchase it and import it. That way, the actual coders and developers for the game are receiving compensation for their work. There seems to be this idea in the anime fandom that if something isn't released in their native region, they have the RIGHT to go and download it for free and watch it, when this is simply untrue.

The same happens with video game releases. There's this idea that they have the RIGHT to download a series because its taking too long to be released. The vast majority of gamers simply import a game if they can't wait that long. Why do fansub leaches feel they are entitled to another person's work, for free?

Tofusensei wrote:

The ball is in the industry's court to either adapt and find a business model that negates this in some way (e.g. speed, speed, speed, speed!) or resign themselves to lower revenues for the rest of the industry's existence. I await their response. -Tofu

I'm afraid that response will be no anime industry existing outside of Japan then. That will be the fansubbers glorious victory. I can hear the bragging already.

Perhaps if so many fans weren't getting their anime from illegal file sharing sites or unlicensed streaming sites, we might have expanded our UK catalogue more quickly. As it stands now, however, we have a better shot at growing our business with Lace than maintaining an overseas branch.

Here's clear proof that the UK industry is hurt by fansubs. Yet you continue to ignore it. Your actions have global repercussions.

Well.. looking at this poll, I think we see part of the problem.
animenewsnetwork.com/survey/147/result

A good chunk of 'fans' think "Fansubs are always okay".

ikillchicken wrote:

Let me try and rephrase my point. Just because you like anime doesn't mean you should therefore be willing to pay to buy it in DVD form. You could argue that if you're unwilling to buy you should do without. I won't go into that debate. However, my point is that I don't see any reason why if you say you like anime that must mean you are willing to purchase anime through the current system. Again, I'll go back to my example about TV shows. Plenty of people enjoy watching shows but only a fraction would be willing to if they had to buy them on DVD. If you want something to have any kind of relatively mainstream audience, you can't expect that audience to be willing to purchase it via DVD.

I get what you're saying better now, sorry for the confusion.

As for anime being mainstream? Maybe only a handful of titles in the history of the R1 market could make that claim. The vast majority of what's released here depend solely on the DVD sales. I think it'd be nice if it were more mainstream, and that the licensing companies were more financially robust, but it doesn't look like we can count on that happening anytime soon. It's a tough nut to crack.

Tofusensei wrote:

The ball is in the industry's court to either adapt and find a business model that negates this in some way (e.g. speed, speed, speed, speed!) or resign themselves to lower revenues for the rest of the industry's existence. I await their response. -Tofu

I'm afraid that response will be no anime industry existing outside of Japan then. That will be the fansubbers glorious victory. I can hear the bragging already.

I enjoy video games greatly. When one isn't released in the US, I have to actually purchase it and import it. That way, the actual coders and developers for the game are receiving compensation for their work. There seems to be this idea in the anime fandom that if something isn't released in their native region, they have the RIGHT to go and download it for free and watch it, when this is simply untrue.

The same happens with video game releases. There's this idea that they have the RIGHT to download a series because its taking too long to be released. The vast majority of gamers simply import a game if they can't wait that long. Why do fansub leaches feel they are entitled to another person's work, for free?

What is boils down to is that such fan subs stop the industry from even existing.

Let's look at that quote again.

Quote:

Perhaps if so many fans weren't getting their anime from illegal file sharing sites or unlicensed streaming sites, we might have expanded our UK catalogue more quickly. As it stands now, however, we have a better shot at growing our business with Lace than maintaining an overseas branch.

Gee. That sure sounds like an industry collapse, even if just a small one, a rumple.

Plus we're talking about UK. What's that? Region 3? Not Region 1. So your argument that the R1 industry is unaffected by your work is bull. Here's clear proof that the UK industry is hurt by fansubs. Yet you continue to ignore it. Your actions have global repercussions. Welcome to the world wide web.

Perhaps if so many fans

The vast majority of translations and DVDs are good quality and deserve your money instead of just downloading an illegal copy of the media.

Plus we're talking about UK. What's that? Region 3? Not Region 1.

Maybe I'm looking at this from a very idealistic point of view, but I don't understand why some of the best fansubbers and people like the examples Tofu-sensei mentioned use their talents for industry. And I don't mean existing industry. Sure ADV is huge, but if groups of the most talented fansubbers banned together, with a few lawyers, a sizable IT, and people who are capable of dealing with financial work, as well as a bit of $ to start with... we can have the industry of anime DVDs like ADV, and a separate company/companies that purchases licenses from Japanese companies and releases speed shows...for a profit.

Just like the success of iTunes, given the right group of people and approach this could really take off, and companies would surely take notice...perhaps adding it to their way of doing things and hiring the people responsible.

Why must you attack me so? We're in a conversation about the translation quality of fansubs and R1 subs that was completely removed from such ethical discussions (those have been done in other threads dozens of times over) and you have to start the anti-fansub speak again?

Please let's try to keep the focus on what's at hand.

True. However, When you stack that up compared to the people who think some variation of "fansubs aren't okay if you can buy it" I would say it measures to maybe 15-20% at best.

The Xenos wrote:

Here's clear proof that the UK industry is hurt by fansubs. Yet you continue to ignore it. Your actions have global repercussions.

I'm not going to argue over whether or not fansubs are hurting the industry. However, to say this is "clear proof" is logically false. This is clear proof that the UK industry is struggling. It fails to prove that: 1) A significant amount of people downloaded anime there 2) A significant number of those people would have bought that anime if they couldn't have bought it. I'm also not one of those people who demands absolute proof before admitting fansubs may cause any kind of problem. However once again, to claim that this is that "clear proof" is just flat out false.

If the industry cannot adapt, it DESERVES to fail. It will fail.
And I honestly think that this will be catastrophic for anime fans around the world.

Likely because you would also need someone to talk to Japanese companies who own the rights to the anime. I doubt those companies would be so open to your smaller companies and especially not open to your digital distribution ideas. I think they are as hesitant of digital distribution as many US producers and studios. I vaguely remember hearing that was the issue with attempts from ADV or Viz or Funimation to distribute stuff online. The Japanese companies who have the final say were not up for it. And the US companies don't want to cheese them off, so they have to play it safe and not experiment. The problem lays not in the US companies, dear Brutus, but in the Japanese ones.

The issue at hand isn't abut the translation quality of fansubs and R1 subs. It is about the ethical discussions and namely the financial toll fansubs are taking on the actual industry.

ikillchicken wrote:

The Xenos wrote: Here's clear proof that the UK industry is hurt by fansubs. Yet you continue to ignore it. Your actions have global repercussions. I'm not going to argue over whether or not fansubs are hurting the industry. However, to say this is "clear proof" is logically false. This is clear proof that the UK industry is struggling. It fails to prove that: 1) A significant amount of people downloaded anime there 2) A significant number of those people would have bought that anime if they couldn't have bought it. I'm also not one of those people who demands absolute proof before admitting fansubs may cause any kind of problem. However once again, to claim that this is that "clear proof" is just flat out false.

Really? The whole point of the news report and comment was over whether or not fansubs are hurting the industry. Clear proof that the UK industry is struggling should be a sign to support it. Plus I'm sick of fans in denial that their actions of distributing a product for free obviously hurts people trying to sell it. Basic economics. What more absolute proof do you need? Especially if you consider that there is no way to monitor all the torrent activity and show how it's affecting sales.

John Ledford considers illegal file-sharing, streaming as possible causes

If the industry cannot adapt, it DESERVES to fail. It will fail.
And I honestly think that this will be catastrophic for anime fans around the world.