Forum - View topicMaria the Virgin Witch (TV).
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Rogueywon
Posts: 260 |
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spoiler[That puzzled me as well. Two possibilities: first, Jacob was in a prime loot location (the Destiny Loot Cave of late medieval France) and Galfa didn't want him getting all the orange drops. Second, Galfa had been warned that Jacob had been hunting him (we see Jacob doing just this earlier in the episode).] But the episode doesn't give us sufficient context to pick either of those for certain. Could be a case of adaptation-decay (I've said for a while that this is struggling to fit into 1-cour), or maybe it will be explained next episode. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2912 |
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Talking about spoiler[martyrdom] with Maria as the subject is a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion. Galfa has never really liked Joseph, sure he appreciated the favour Joseph rendered him (which he paid back in full) but the first encounter was of the seasoned mercenary looking down on the snotty-nosed squire with equipment superior to his standing. Now that Maria is involved in the mix, the feeling of loathing is now mutual. |
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justsomeaccount
 Posts: 471 |
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I don't know if he actually wants to kill him. I'm not sure what he wants, but precisely because Galfa hasn't shown any reasons to want to kill him, and knowing that he likes Joseph even if he doesn't want to recognize it (but when two persons [Joseph's lord and the mercenary woman] commit it, it's clear it's the truth, so it's not going to be left like that), I'm intrigued about why is motivating him now, or even what does he plan to do, we don't know if what he wants to do is killing him with his knuckles (if he wanted to do it probably he should use a knife [and if he cannot take it with that arm, changing arms to incapacitate him]) or other thing we'll see later. We'll probably know next episode in a verbal conflict between them, but so far Galfa hasn't been a simplistic character so I'm looking forward to it.
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3657 |
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Michael hasn't made any sense to me since he showed up again. He spoiler[spears Viv because she... attacked God? Said mean things? Why would Michael or God care?] It's hypocritical, but unnecessarily so. There's plenty of thoughtful hypocrisy in what it means to be a non-interventionist God who nevertheless has to take action to stop Maria, and there was no need to resort to cheap writing tricks like temper tantrums to make antagonists seem more villainous. Unlike everyone else, apparently, I actually thought this was the worst episode. It was too "conventional" in how it portrayed villainy, and heroics, and the power of love and friendship, and the show has always been much smarter than that. |
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jroa
Posts: 542 |
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I don't see it as too hypocritical, at least not for the most part. The Bible is full of examples where someone ends up being cursed or otherwise hurt for directly questioning the Lord, even for lesser offenses, particularly in the Old Testament. That said, Michael is simply fulfilling an assigned role and, while extremely powerful, isn't even supposed to be a perfect being. His reaction came across as more robotic than emotional. "Temper tantrum" isn't the description I'd use here.
Rather than being a matter of absolute heroism and absolute villainy, I think it's simply redrawing the lines that separate the cast between conflict and cooperation in order to fit the current situation Maria has found herself in. I'd argue that friendship has always been part of the theme (reflecting the dynamics of Maria's circle of acquaintances) and the concept of "love" has also been implicitly suggested within the story since the very beginning, so I am not against the presence of either of those things. I wouldn't say they are enough to solve every problem, but in this universe they are in fact sources of strength, whether literally or metaphorically speaking. |
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ChibiKangaroo
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Although I don't think this was the worst episode, I do agree with Yttrbio about Michael being a fairly incomprehensible character. I suppose you could say that him being an angel makes him a bit mysterious by nature, but thus far I think he has been the weakest character in this show.
The fact that spoiler[Edwina was able to use magic to save Maria from the church without him doing anything about it] isn't the first time he's seemed inconsistent. We all saw the countless times Maria was able to get away with it pretty clearly (such as summoning giant monsters in the middle of battle fields), and he wouldn't show up because of some silly contrivance like Ezekiel's eyes being covered or something. It makes him seem like some tool that only gets deployed when needed, but doesn't have to be around when it would be inconvenient for him to be there. Given that he is essentially the hand of God, you would think he could more or less be in any place at any time (or all places at all times). I think my dislike of him as a character is probably affected in part by my dislike of the "Church" as a character. A lot of anime that deal with Christianity do touch upon negative portrayals of the "Church," but this show has sort of gone to the extreme thus far. The "Church," and all of its agents are about as villainous as you can get, from murdering and raping to threatening to kill innocent children to get what they want, and Michael/God has been portrayed as more or less completely ammoral, and in some cases immoral. (As much hypocrisy as there is in Christianity, I still think it is strange to portray God in as cruel a manner as the show has done thus far.) Some people have been saying this show is nuanced in its portrayal of the villains. That seems ridiculous to me. These are more or less the most despicable villains I've seen in recent shows. At least most of the other villains we see in anime have some larger goal in mind (usually conquest/world domination). I still am not really sure if Bernard and the Church have any goal at all in this show (and given Bernard's recent psychotic break and his sudden disinterest in Maria, it just makes him seem even more like a pointless villain). This is starting to remind me a bit of Kayaba from SAO season 1. That being said, there were some good things in this episode, specifically, Viv and Edwina. Up until now the other witches have just been eye candy or background scenery. The show finally allows them to be characters, which was nice. I really enjoyed spoiler[Edwina's rescue of Maria.] It reminded me of the magic we saw Maria doing in the first episode, which I thought was a great episode. It's too bad the show hasn't stayed at that level. |
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HaruhiToy
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^ You guys have heard the saying "God moves in mysterious ways" haven't you? So why wouldn't Michael's actions be incomprehensible and apparently hypocritical? It would be actually odd if they weren't.
The whole thing about the non-intervention by God is not that He doesn't care, but that the consequences of divine intervention can be catastrophic. It is what got Jesus crucified. God doesn't want that to happen again, so no more deity-on-earth except in the most indirect ways until the Messiah. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2912 |
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No agreement then when Viv aggravates Michael by spoiler[calling the God he serves uncaring and therefore non-existent as far as the witches and populace are concerned. All that gets Viv in return is a sword through the innards. ] Two sides of the same coin: either a God who "moves in mysterious ways" in your worldview or a God so uncaring the population might as well assume it's an empty concept and rely on something else when they're in need. Even Ezekiel spoiler[flat out states that the actions of the Church on terrestrial ground don't mesh with the intentions of the Heaven it purports to serve. ] The retort that "I don't understand" isn't exactly a surprise from a girl with her age in the single digits. Michael's been assigned a job and he's executing it to the letter as far as he's concerned. Reminds me of the bureaucrat who closed shop for the day because the lawyer bringing in the last-minute appeal of a prisoner about to be executed was 5 minutes later than office hours. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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Mysterious ways doesn't = asshole ways. That's the God that's been portrayed by this show. Christianity teaches about a merciful God, but we have yet to see any indication of that here. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18275 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Remember who's making the claims about God being distant and uncaring, though: people (Maria and her servants and Viv) who have no reason to respect or believe in the Christian God. And most of what else is making God look bad is attributable to the human agents of the Church, who are interpreting things as they see fit and (in many cases) to further their own ends.
I also thought Michael was being an arrogant dick at first with what he said about Viv's words, but he is a being with exactly one loyalty and one voice in his head, an agent of his Heavenly master's will in the purest sense, and nothing that anyone else says matters. I don't think he's meant to be a character, but instead an embodiment of Heaven's righteous authority. There's also a simple and plausible explanation for why spoiler[Michael didn't show up for Edwina's rescue of Maria:] Ezekiel wasn't there. She was there, you'll note, when Viv encountered him last episode. Exactly why this matters, I'm not sure, but to my recollection he hasn't shown up without Ezekiel also being present since she first appeared. Frankly, I thought this was one of the strongest episodes. I loved the detail work on all of the historical elements, the song which player during spoiler[Maria's rescue], and spoiler[Gilbert's reaction to noticing that the girl he had been getting herbs/medicine from was Edwina's familiar], And I thought the way that spoiler[Ezekiel was all bloodied when she transformed back to herself after gutting Viv] was a potent bit of imagery. Gilbert's reasons for rushing the timetable on burning Maria are perfectly understandable, too: he has seen first-hand the effect that associating with her had on Bernard, and so has decided that she's too much of a risk. The only part I didn't like was how Galfa was handled. But otherwise this was a very strong episode even for a week where nearly every series I've watched so far seems to be at its best. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2912 |
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Hence my comment on him being too busy. Ezekiel herself said she acts like a watchdog to keep Maria on her toes, but if prevention of overt magical intervention is such a top priority for Michael and the God he serves what's stopping him from keeping an eye on Maria's upcoming date with the flames? If it was carried out, Michael would have been able to pull Ezekiel from her duties and go back to doing what he's been doing when he's not trying to kill witches. For a heavenly bureaucrat, he must have a lot in his in-tray to devolve "trivial" matters to his underlings. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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This is all understandable but it doesn't explain the total lack of mercy or love of any kind. That is the God that is taught to the masses. If the message of this story is that the Church are all evil bastards and God is nothing close to the merciful loving God that Christianity teaches about, then that is what they are achieving. Is that the intention? If so, I just wonder why. Is this story supposed to be a broadside slamming of the Christian religion as a whole? In all of the flowery, loving reviews the show has been getting, that is an elephant in the room that is being totally ignored.
It's possible, but it would be a weak explanation. Like I said, Michael is God's agent. God is supposedly everywhere at all times. One would not presume that God can only see something happening if one of his lowly weapons happens to be in the vicinity.
I actually agree with this statement. I just wish such a statement meant something. But it doesn't, due to the inflation all the previous episodes have gotten. |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3657 |
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I agree that Michael isn't really a character but more a embodiment of God as god. But that means that if he does something, there should be some connection to why God would act that way, and I have a hard time seeing it in this scene. We've seen Michael as a preserver of the godly order of things, and as uncompromising when Ezekiel complains, but both of these things can be found in Christian theology. But a God who kills those who say mean things about him, or attack him? There are some strands of that, but it seems completely opposite from the presentation thus far. If the show is saying "God moves in mysterious ways," which is a rejection of the idea that any thought should be given to why things happen, applying it to a show like this, which has gone ahead and actually presented a literal embodiment through Michael, seems like a step back in terms of investigating the show's themes. The whole thing felt to me like the kind of "coming up with reasons to throw characters at each other" approach I associate with less thoughtful action shows. |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15524 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I think one of the strongest scenes was seeing Ezekiel spoiler[covered in blood.] And later when spoiler[Gilbert recognised the familiar].
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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That also explained how the Church got potent medicines for Martha. Several people mentioned that the clerics of the time weren't particularly skilled with this. So the magic that was used to denounce the magic Maria was treating Martha with was exactly the same thing with a different wrapper. Nasty bastards. |
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